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Price gouging or “supply and demand”? It’s both. The market is designed to take advantage every chance it gets.
No.

Supply and demand are analytical concepts. They are derived from axiomatic theory. The framework enjoys considerable empirical support.

Price gouging is a moral concept. Using Dark Ages morality to determine policy in the 21st century is a risk-fraught exercise. Accusations of 'price gouging' have in the past lead to policy solutions that were far worse than the disease.
 

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When markets return to normal, Never return to one of these dealers.
I wish they would do away with dealers all together and let people buy direct from the manufacturer. Isn’t that the model Tesla has? It looks like Ford is thinking of something similar too. I’m not sure how they would work out the service side, we will still need service techs.


(From this thread at BITOG)
 

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I will not be buying a new car until we get a new admin.
I'm getting ready to retire so I won't care one way or the other :p . I bought my Soul 9+ years ago with the hopes that it could get me to retirement, and by god it made it. 180k+ miles later. Burns some oil and throws the check engine light on and off, but otherwise still drives well enough that I haven't sold it. I can tell I've got some compression loss either at the rings or the valves because it won't hold at all on a hill any more without the parking brake; one day a few months ago I didn't have the brake clicked enough and it rolled down my driveway and into my neighbor's front planting bed. I look out my window and say out loud "Wow, I wonder who parked their car in the neighbor's flower bed" - whoah, it's me! :ROFLMAO:

Anyway, I strongly suspect I bought my last new vehicle 3 years ago when I bought my new Ram 4WD Crew Cab for the business. It's only got 22k miles on it at this point and those will only decrease after I retire, so I am likely to have that vehicle for a long, long time. I also still have my former commuter before the Soul, a 95 Miata, that has 178k miles, drives great, shifts great, and is just a lot of fun to drive, so once I retire I suspect the Soul will end up being odd car out or being sold. But who knows?
 

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While I was at my dealer, for an oil change, this past week, I had time to check out the line up of used Souls.
Would you believe 16 used Souls, mostly Gen-2, and several 2020's, all in one line, along the side of the lot.
I think they are trying to corner the market on used KIA Souls. They keep trying to get mine. NO WAY JOSEY!
They would have to pry my keys out of my cold dead hands. (that sounds familiar, Eh?)

But, if I won the lottery, I'd buy up all the 2020's and hand them out to needy friends, like party favors. If it's not been damaged, it's a great little car.

I may not be here by Thanksgiving, so let me take this opportunity to wish you all a very....

View attachment 138332 Happy Thanksgiving!

FLH :cool:
Why, where are you going? Are you dying?
 

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I wish they would do away with dealers all together and let people buy direct from the manufacturer. Isn’t that the model Tesla has? It looks like Ford is thinking of something similar too. I’m not sure how they would work out the service side, we will still need service techs.

Oh boy....FORD will need plenty of service techs!

I agree with your idea
 

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Yes.

Americans claim to be super fans of freemarket capitalism and yet increasingly they seem to have less and less understanding of how markets actually work.

In the background, the pandemic is constricting supply. Simple.

Unprecedented central bank stimulus is boosting demand. As a general rule, monetary policy is incapable of directly addressing supply shocks or structural economic unemployment. In this case, massive stimulus will not correct pandemic-caused supply shortages but will cause all kinds of market distortions.

Coping with the pandemic is turning out to be a thorny problem of social coordination. Many countries around the world are experiencing similar challenges to the USA in regards to social coordinating a response to the pandemic.

This should change going forward especially as the feedback loop slowly but steadily encourages the unvaccinated to get vaccinated.
With Americans, it's gouging if you're a buyer and just plain good business sense if you're a seller :LOL:. People only want the free market when it lets them get what they want to buy for a super cheap price or lets them get rid of what they want to sell for an amazing profit. If those things are flipped around, someone needs to do something about it :rolleyes::p
 

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No.

Supply and demand are analytical concepts. They are derived from axiomatic theory. The framework enjoys considerable empirical support.

Price gouging is a moral concept. Using Dark Ages morality to determine policy in the 21st century is a risk-fraught exercise. Accusations of 'price gouging' have in the past lead to policy solutions that were far worse than the disease.
I didn’t say it’s the same thing. I said it’s both. Our market does not exist in a vacuum where everything is black and white and outdated theories are realities. It’s been my understanding that most economists (not the self-trained internet bunch) consider the ideas of people like Adam Smith to be irrelevant in today’s market and really just fuel for ideologues.
 

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I didn’t say it’s the same thing. I said it’s both. Our market does not exist in a vacuum where everything is black and white and outdated theories are realities. It’s been my understanding that most economists (not the self-trained internet bunch) consider the ideas of people like Adam Smith to be irrelevant in today’s market and really just fuel for ideologues.
This is getting increasingly off-topic. For those who persist, may you find the following interesting:

Economists pride themselves on being scientific and many view economics as the core social science. The main theoretical approaches lean models of rational choice' and assume rational behaviour.

Economists are not high priests of morality.

I am not sure what "outdated theories" have to do with any of this. The notion that somebody like Adam Smith is irrelevant in today's market is something I have never read or heard from another economist.

Adam Smith is the best known thinker of the Classical Economics period. Since then we have had Alfred Marshall's marginal analysis revolution that lead to Neo-Classical economics, then there was the contribution of non-applied game theory and rational expectations. Behavioural economics and finance is a relatively recent development and enjoys huge respect and support among economists.

From the Classical economics period, we have David Ricardo's theory of comparative advantage which is still used to illustrate the mutual benefits of trade between unequal partners.

Milton Friedman is still recognized as a great American economist particularly in the area of monetary policy. His theoretical approach no longer has the same explanatory value as it once did but nobody I know would view his work as "irrelevant". They are far more likely to regard his work as an important building block.

Other than the fact that freemarket economists tend to be big supporters of freemarket capitalism, I am not sure what ideology has to do with this. Example: me. I am a big fan of the Chicago School approach to well-defined and secure economic property rights (individual and collective). That makes me a dangerous right-wing ideologue according to some in North America. Those people prefer to allow state actors to willy nilly appropriate/take/steal resources from others as they see fit. (For the worst cases, see Soviet-style communism and contemporary Neo-Marxist populism in South America and Africa.)

Yet, many will point out that the Nordic social democracies exhibit tremendous socio-economic outcomes precisely because these countries do well-defined, secure economic property rights so well. Better than the USA according to some pundits. Simply pointing this out makes me a dangerous communist or socialist according to many of your fellow citizens.
 

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This thread has run its course and has become political. The moderator might as well lock it at this point.
 

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This thread has run its course and has become political. The moderator might as well lock it at this point.
LOL! You made it "political" a long time ago with your accusations of price gouging.

It was marked as Off Topic. rhysoul, are you feeling particularly paternalistic this morning?
 

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Not sure how talking about dealer price gouging is political. It’s like gas stations jacking up the price after a storm.
 

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In the words of the great economist Ron Popiel, we've probably "sliced & diced" this topic as far as we can go. o_O
 
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But wait, there’s more!

RIP, just saw he passed away in July.
If you act NOW, we'll send you a free cap snaffler. You just pay $19.99 in shipping and handling!
 
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This is getting increasingly off-topic. For those who persist, may you find the following interesting:

Economists pride themselves on being scientific and many view economics as the core social science. The main theoretical approaches lean models of rational choice' and assume rational behaviour.

Economists are not high priests of morality.

I am not sure what "outdated theories" have to do with any of this. The notion that somebody like Adam Smith is irrelevant in today's market is something I have never read or heard from another economist.

Adam Smith is the best known thinker of the Classical Economics period. Since then we have had Alfred Marshall's marginal analysis revolution that lead to Neo-Classical economics, then there was the contribution of non-applied game theory and rational expectations. Behavioural economics and finance is a relatively recent development and enjoys huge respect and support among economists.

From the Classical economics period, we have David Ricardo's theory of comparative advantage which is still used to illustrate the mutual benefits of trade between unequal partners.

Milton Friedman is still recognized as a great American economist particularly in the area of monetary policy. His theoretical approach no longer has the same explanatory value as it once did but nobody I know would view his work as "irrelevant". They are far more likely to regard his work as an important building block.

Other than the fact that freemarket economists tend to be big supporters of freemarket capitalism, I am not sure what ideology has to do with this. Example: me. I am a big fan of the Chicago School approach to well-defined and secure economic property rights (individual and collective). That makes me a dangerous right-wing ideologue according to some in North America. Those people prefer to allow state actors to willy nilly appropriate/take/steal resources from others as they see fit. (For the worst cases, see Soviet-style communism and contemporary Neo-Marxist populism in South America and Africa.)

Yet, many will point out that the Nordic social democracies exhibit tremendous socio-economic outcomes precisely because these countries do well-defined, secure economic property rights so well. Better than the USA according to some pundits. Simply pointing this out makes me a dangerous communist or socialist according to many of your fellow citizens.
Sounds good, but I can't fact check you. At this point all I remember about economics is supply and demand.
Don't they also call it the dismal science. Hey, now what else might I remember? :LOL:
 
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