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The invoice shows for the filter "Fram Ultra -10k 55073

Jim G
http://www.fram.com/parts-search/XG9688/?ref=NoIg5gpgdhBOCGAbEAaKBXRiUgEwAYBGADlRAGkBLeMgZQHtMyAZAFgAJCA6ANmZcpgAFgBd2AEXQiAnmQDC8WCAC6QA

I think this is it. Some of the other members might know if the filter is OK for your car.

PRODUCT SPECS
Height 3.08
Inside Diameter 20mmx1.5mm Th'd
Outside Diameter 3.02
Anti-Drainback Valve YES
By-Pass Valve Setting 9-15
Style 1
Base Gasket I.D. 2.13
Base Gasket O.D. 2.42
Base Gasket Thickness 0.2
 

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2017 KIA Soul base, Titanium. Bought some better taars.
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same thing happened with our turbo optimas. kia even had to issue a tsb on this 3 years ago and we had our oil replaced for free. fast forward to last November. I went for an engine recall, which included a complimentary oil change. guess what, 5w20 was used. Called the dealership, told them to look up the tsb, got it replaced with 5w30 synthetic again. And these are Kia techs, who supposedly had extra training. they never learn.

I don't think any damage could occur in your turbo, since it's pretty cold in Canadia and you only drove a little.
I've had KIA overfill my Souls more than once. You'd THINK the morons would know how many quarts each engine takes. They can look it up on the little computer gizmo that most of them have nearby.

I once took in a 5-quart Pennzoil bottle and it was almost empty when they returned the car to me. That was the 2.0, but recently they overfilled my 1.6 also. And a Mazda tech who did only O&Fs overfilled it and spilled oil all over hell, it just about flooded the belly pan. They were very good about cleaning up their mess, but WTF. How in hell difficult is it to get and O&F right?

Let me answer that myself. Apparently an oil and filter change is extremely challenging, especially if you spend half your shop time on your freakin phone with your OMG!! BFF!!!! LOL!! etc. moron friends.

sorry to hear of the mix-up, particular when you made it so clear, but glad it got sorted.

Surprised you changed the oil so quickly - any particular reason? I did my first oil change after my car was 6 months old as I don't put on a lot of kilometers.
I always change the O&F on new cars at 500-1500. I consider it cheap insurance and good care for the engine parts.

It's recommended that for a brand new engine (or even an engine that has just been rebuilt), you should change the oil at about 1000 miles = 1600 km to get the metal particles out that are generated during the break-in period. I have 1825 km on my Soul today.

Jim G
Yup.

The invoice shows for the filter "Fram Ultra -10k 55073

Jim G
Rutt roe! OE is the one and only oil filter to use, per KIA.

Your dealership shop sounds like a bunch of f>ups. That needs to be a KIA factory filter. That is maintenance 101, we've had boo coo discussions about it.
 

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FRAM ULTRA® Spin-on Oil Filter Kia Soul 2018 L4 1.6L | FRAM

I think this is it. Some of the other members might know if the filter is OK for your car.

PRODUCT SPECS
Height 3.08
Inside Diameter 20mmx1.5mm Th'd
Outside Diameter 3.02
Anti-Drainback Valve YES
By-Pass Valve Setting 9-15
Style 1
Base Gasket I.D. 2.13
Base Gasket O.D. 2.42
Base Gasket Thickness 0.2
I wouldn't run out and change it in the middle of the night. In fact, I'd probably leave it be until the next oil change. Fram makes some of the best and some of the worst filters in the industry. The Ultra is one of the best. From a practical point of view, I think it's extremely unlikely that OP will have a problem.

That being said, the Fram Ultra is also almost twice as expensive as the Kia / Hyundai OEM filter, which is every bit as good quality-wise. Cut one open some time. They really are excellent filters. They also eliminate the chance of Kia declining a warranty repair because of a filter-related problem.

Without rehashing the whole issue again, what it comes down to for me is that the OEM filters are so cheap and so good that I don't think it makes sense not to use them, especially since there have been problems with the anti-drainback valves in some of the aftermarket ones (including, I am told, some that didn't have them at all).

If the OEM filters were garbage or were crazy expensive, I'd probably go with Wix (or the top-end NAPA filters, which are re-badged Wix filters). But the OEM filters are excellent quality at a great price, and they avoid any potential warranty problems; so as is the case with most knowledgeable Kia owners, they're what I use. But I wouldn't pull that particular Fram filter out if I were in OP's situation. I'd just bring the OEM filter with me next time if I chose to have someone else change the oil.

Seeing as how I live in the boonies, however, where no one gives a rat's ass about what I do in my backyard, I'll just keep doing my own oil changes. It's mind-boggling how many professional mechanics botch something as simple as an oil change. But they do. All the time.
 

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I'd say it depends on the car, but break-in is break-in unless the manufacturer does it at the factory for 1000+ miles (they don't). First change after a thousand ish is always a safe bet. I got lazy on the Kia and didn't, and it came out looking pretty black on the first change. We'll see what it looks like this week when I dump it out again after only 2k.
I never could understand why a car's first oil change tends to be so black. I get that there may be some break-in going on, but that would produce metal, not carbon. Unless the PCM is operating sub-optimally until it does enough drive cycles to be fully functional. I suppose that could explain it. I do know that the first oil change that I did at about 1,000 miles was a lot blacker than the second that I did at about 7,000 miles. It's strange.
 

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Not to sound all CSI: South Korea, the TSB says that Kia engineers designed the OEM filter specially for Kia engines to "meet the various requirements for proper filtration, leak down, oil flow rate and pressure variations to ensure the optimal performance of the engine lubrication system."

Problems, including unusual engine noises, will not be treated as warrantable if a "substandard" oil filter was used.

So at that point it would be up to the owner to prove their filter is not substandard.

I'm with Geek, save yourself a potential hot mess and use the little blue filter.

Or be like Sinatra and do it your way.........:greedy_dollars:
 

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FRAM ULTRA® Spin-on Oil Filter Kia Soul 2018 L4 1.6L | FRAM

I think this is it. Some of the other members might know if the filter is OK for your car.

PRODUCT SPECS
Height 3.08
Inside Diameter 20mmx1.5mm Th'd
Outside Diameter 3.02
Anti-Drainback Valve YES
By-Pass Valve Setting 9-15
Style 1
Base Gasket I.D. 2.13
Base Gasket O.D. 2.42
Base Gasket Thickness 0.2
I can't say if that is as good, worse or better than the KIA. However for the KIA I will only use a KIA filter. In my other cars I use a Mobile One Filter along with Mobile One oil in all my cars. I posted this I believe before, the Mobile One oil change place I go to will NOT use anything but a KIA/Hyundai filter for those cars. They agree with KIA there's is different enough in the pressure that they do not trust even their own Mobile One filter over the KIA.
Maybe not in the middle of the night, (lol) but I might not wait till the next oil change unless you can determine the Fram is equal to the KIA. If you do not hear any knocking likely it's fine. Before it was known to be careful on the filter used my Brother In Law's Hyundai started knocking and he went through hell with the engine being taken apart etc etc... after the news came out he had the Hyundai filter put on and problems solved.
I never use Fram for anything. Some people will say they have always used Fram and have no problems.

The KIA filter is actually very competitively priced so why not use it?
 

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Discussion Starter #30
To answer everyone's question about why a Kia filter was not used: The Kia dealerships are both quite far from my home, and because I don't like wasting time driving to a dealership and back, and because I have used a local auto repair shop on my last 2 cars before the Soul, and never had an issue, I had my local shop do the oil and filter change, like normal. Since the shop is NOT a Kia dealership, it naturally does not use Kia filters. They use Fram.

Jim G
 

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To answer everyone's question about why a Kia filter was not used: The Kia dealerships are both quite far from my home, and because I don't like wasting time driving to a dealership and back, and because I have used a local auto repair shop on my last 2 cars before the Soul, and never had an issue, I had my local shop do the oil and filter change, like normal. Since the shop is NOT a Kia dealership, it naturally does not use Kia filters. They use Fram.

Jim G
Totally understand Jim. Makes perfect sense.

I think what some of us are suggesting is you pick up some Kia OEM filters & take one along each time your trusted mechanic changes the oil. You can buy them at a good price online at places like ebay & have them delivered to your front door. Easy peasy.

All the best!
 

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2017 KIA Soul base, Titanium. Bought some better taars.
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To answer everyone's question about why a Kia filter was not used: The Kia dealerships are both quite far from my home, and because I don't like wasting time driving to a dealership and back, and because I have used a local auto repair shop on my last 2 cars before the Soul, and never had an issue, I had my local shop do the oil and filter change, like normal. Since the shop is NOT a Kia dealership, it naturally does not use Kia filters. They use Fram.

Jim G
In 2014 several trade associations asked the feds to rule on the KIA oil filter issue. The latest info I can find in a search is the same 2014 article. I know the feds move slowly...

MAY 29, 2014 12:00 AMTrade Associations Insist That FTC Take Action Against Kia

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aftermarketNews Staff,

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BETHESDA, Md. – The Auto Care Association, Automotive Oil Change Association, Service Station Dealers of America and Tire Industry Association have joined forces to call on the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) to take immediate action to have Kia withdraw a technical bulletin warning consumers not to use non-OEM filters, which the associations claim is a violation of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (MMWA).

The bulletin, which was referenced in an article posted by Consumer Reports, recommended that car owners either go back to the authorized dealer or use a Kia oil filter to avoid problems with oil- and filter-related warranty claims.

Two years ago, the four associations submitted a complaint to the FTC regarding a technical service bulletin from Kia that authorizes dealers to deny warranty coverage simply based on the use of an aftermarket filter without any determination that the filter actually caused the problem with the vehicle. The letter pointed out the fact that this practice is a violation of the MMWA. Specifically, the letter stated:

The MMWA manufacturer’s burden of proof is not that it need merely show an aftermarket part “relates” to damage, but that it “caused” any alleged damage. As the FTC states in its consumer alert: “The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act makes it illegal for companies to void your warranty or deny coverage under the warranty simply because you used an aftermarket or recycled part.” The alert goes on to say that if there is a problem with use of an aftermarket part or how it was installed, the manufacturer or dealer may deny a warranty claim. However, the manufacturer must first “show that the aftermarket or recycled part caused the need for repairs before denying warranty coverage.” Kia’s directives circumvent this process entirely: the mere presence of an aftermarket oil filter automatically voids warranty coverage for the oil change parts and services as well as any damage Kia says “relates” to oil filter function.

The May 27, 2014 letter to the FTC states, “Despite the complaint, the FTC has yet to do anything to enforce the MMWA requirements with Kia. Now, Consumer Reports (CR) is further promoting the Kia technical bulletin in an article that has been seen on the Yahoo’s front page, as well as other locations. If there was any doubt about how the technical bulletin is being interpreted by consumers, one only needs to read the recommendations from CR for motorists with Kia vehicles under warranty.”


Trade Associations Insist That FTC Take Action Against Kia - aftermarketNews

Agree or disagree, I comply with the KIA policy for simplicity's sake. If I can avoid a potential expensive disaster that I'd have to litigate or buy expensive parts to resolve, I'll just buy a $7 H/K oil filter and move on dot org.

Genuine KIA or Hyundai filters (same thing) can be had on the internet or at your friendly local Hyundai dealer if KIA is a dealer too far.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
It sounds like Kia tried to scare its customers into going to a Kia dealer for oil and filter changes. Its claim that only Kia filters should be used, and that warranty claims should be denied based on the mere presence of a non-Kia filter, is not only unscrupulous, but also violates the law. The law clearly states that the manufacturer denying a warranty claim must show that the non-OEM part caused the failure.

However, as a couple of you have pointed out, the Kia filter is apparently not unduly costly and apparently available from sources other than Kia, so on a practical basis it's better to just buy a supply of the Kia filters and take them in to your oil change place when you go in for service. That's what I'll do.

Kia's stance angers me though. Clearly, they had a case where someone bought and used a badly made, or more likely, a simply incorrect oil filter, and so they improperly and unilaterally decreed, despite the Magnuson law, that mere presence of ANY non-Kia oil filter is sufficient to deny warranty coverage. I thought they were better than this, but then aren't they the same people who had to pay me money every few months, based on miles driven, because they overstated the Soul's EPA MPG?

Corporate ethics are really in tatters these days.

Jim G
 

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I see we are rehashing the same old thing, KIA revised that first TSB possibly because of the reference above to make things clearer. Notice the date of the letter and the date of the revised TSB.



even the original one did not specifically say you could not use after-market oil filters. It just said they don't recommend them as they do not test or approve them and incorrect design ones could cause possible problems. Recommend does not mean compulsory, but a lot of people seem to take it that way.

I bet you see the same thing with any other manufacturer too, I doubt this is KIA exclusive.
 

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Discussion Starter #35 (Edited)
I see we are rehashing the same old thing, KIA revised that first TSB possibly because of the reference above to make things clearer. Notice the date of the letter and the date of the revised TSB.



even the original one did not specifically say you could not use after-market oil filters. It just said they don't recommend them as they do not test or approve them and incorrect design ones could cause possible problems. Recommend does not mean compulsory, but a lot of people seem to take it that way.
If this is the current Kia stance, then it is consistent with both the law and with other car manufacturer's stances. Fram and Mobil Oil are both well regarded national brands that have been around far longer than Kia has, so I think it would be pretty unlikely that a Fram filter or Mobil 1 oil is somehow "not good enough". Oil filters, and oil, are designed to meet recognized engineering standards, and as long as you buy oil and filter that meet those standards, I suspect Kia would have a tough time proving that a non-Kia oil or oil filter caused engine damage.

In fact, the owner manuals for both my Soul and the other cars and motorcycles I own or have owned all recognize this if you read them: They spell out the specific oil viscosity and the SAE or other engineering standards that need to be complied with. If the products you use comply with those standards, Kia cannot allege that the products caused a failure simply because they are not branded as "Kia".

It's actually far easier to run into oil trouble on a motorcycle than on a car, for one very specific reason: most motorsycles use "wet" clutches (i.e. the engine or transmission oil "bathes" the clutch in it fulltime, and cools the clutch plates via its recirculaiton). This is an "issue" because many modern car oils includes special "slipperyiness" agents that help improve fuel mileage. Those slipperyness agents unfortunately cause the clutch plates in wet clutches to develop "slip" over time as they saturate the clutch plates. Therefore, motorcycle manuals for many motorcycles (inclduing my current one) specifically list an engineering standard BEYOND simple viscosiyt, which must be complied with. That standard prohibits the inclusion of these slipperyness agents. So, when I shop for motorcycle oil, I need to ensure that this other standard is met as well as the viscosity standard.

Jim G
 

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I just don't want anyone to come away from this thinking this is just KIA trying to get you to buy their filter for the sales of it.

The Government has never required KIA to change their stance. Consumer reports and even OTHER FILTER MANUFACTURERS sent out their own memo seeming to agree with KIA. And through my Brother In Law I have seen (heard) it first hand.

http://apauto.com/dnld/p87105a62191e2b60e6/Prime Guard Filter Technical Bulletin 2.3.2016.pdf

A little older but nice breakdown of the OEM filter
http://www.hyundai-forums.com/yf-2011-sonata-i45/130394-dissection-oem-hyundai-filter.html


I can just about guarantee if you show up at KIA dealer with non KIA filter it will be noted. If you have a problem under warranty that the wrong filter could cause you may win in the end, but you made it much harder on yourself. And you may lose.That does not mean no other filter meets the standard, and it is likely as this was found out more of them now do meet it.
That said I feel it may not make sense to not to use the KIA filter since cost really is not an issue. If there is no dealer near you I would make one trip and buy a few, or check with Amazon and get free shipping if the cost is about the same or on Ebay.
IMPORTANT - also get the crush washers to make sure they get replaced at every oil change. If yours has a black mark on it it was never changed, it comes that way from factory.
 

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Well said tampa. The takeaway is "take the course of least resistance" by using OEM.

Nobody is saying someone can't use another brand. Just be prepared for some possible pushback from Kia.

Caveat Emptor.
 

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If this is the current Kia stance, then it is consistent with both the law and with other car manufacturer's stances. Fram and Mobil Oil are both well regarded national brands that have been around far longer than Kia has, so I think it would be pretty unlikely that a Fram filter or Mobil 1 oil is somehow "not good enough". Oil filters, and oil, are designed to meet recognized engineering standards, and as long as you buy oil and filter that meet those standards, I suspect Kia would have a tough time proving that a non-Kia oil or oil filter caused engine damage.

In fact, the owner manuals for both my Soul and the other cars and motorcycles I own or have owned all recognize this if you read them: They spell out the specific oil viscosity and the SAE or other engineering standards that need to be complied with. If the products you use comply with those standards, Kia cannot allege that the products caused a failure simply because they are not branded as "Kia".

It's actually far easier to run into oil trouble on a motorcycle than on a car, for one very specific reason: most motorsycles use "wet" clutches (i.e. the engine or transmission oil "bathes" the clutch in it fulltime, and cools the clutch plates via its recirculaiton). This is an "issue" because many modern car oils includes special "slipperyiness" agents that help improve fuel mileage. Those slipperyness agents unfortunately cause the clutch plates in wet clutches to develop "slip" over time as they saturate the clutch plates. Therefore, motorcycle manuals for many motorcycles (inclduing my current one) specifically list an engineering standard BEYOND simple viscosiyt, which must be complied with. That standard prohibits the inclusion of these slipperyness agents. So, when I shop for motorcycle oil, I need to ensure that this other standard is met as well as the viscosity standard.

Jim G
The thing is that Kia's stance actually came about as a result of real problems that were being caused by sub-par filters, usually involving knocking or ticking. I suspect (without evidence), however, that most of those cases involved low-end filters. As I said earlier, I doubt that any reputable manufacturer's high-end filters will be a practical problem.

When I bought my 2012, I knew nothing of all this filter controversy. I did the first oil change using a NAPA / Wix filter that I had purchased for a Hyundai that I no longer owned. It took the same filter. The NAPA filter was whatever their top tier was called back then. Platinum I think. It worked fine. No ticks, knocks, or anything else. But once I found out that there had been issues with some aftermarket filters and that Kia had issued the TSB, I switched over to the OEM filters. They're also less expensive, so why not?

You should be able to get them on Amazon or eBay for ~ $6.00 each. I suggest you look for a dealership that sells them through Amazon or eBay. There are bazillions of them. This way you have a receipt from an actual dealership. It also reduces the chances of getting a counterfeit filter. Not that I've heard of that happening, but nothing surprises me these days.

If you can't find someone who'll ship them to BC, let me know. I'll pick some up in your name and mail them to you with the receipt the next time I go to the VA for some reason. There's a Kia dealership across the street from the VA clinic.
 

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Discussion Starter #39
Thanks Geek on the Hill, but I'm sure I can get some. We go into Nanimo once or twice a month, and there is a Kia dealer there. In fact, He has a touchup paint pen he's holding for me, so when I finally get in there, I'll buy the oil filters too. :)

Jim G
 
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