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Today, I was walking through a Hyundai dealer and noticed the Elantra's IVT was made in Mexico (as they have for a couple of years). I know my '20 Soul LX engine, transmission, and final assembly were all three in Korea (as I believe all Souls are???) I'm at 3,600 miles with no problems.

I'm wondering if there is a higher IVT failure rate for either factory, or if they both have the same reliability record. Those should be the same basic units, except perhaps some software tweaks between models. This might show if it's a design flaw or perhaps a parts supplier quality issue.
 

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... Apparently Kia is very tight lipped with their dealers on this transmission problem. The dealer sends the codes to Kia, Kia says "we'll send a new transmission". No communication of what the actual mechanical problem is. She was breath-takingly honest about the whole thing, and seemed pretty ticked off about it.
If they are being quiet about it to their dealers my guess it's that they haven't resolved the issue yet. They may know the cause, but are working with designer and/or mfg for a solution, for example (i don't believe most car companies design their own transmissions).

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If they are being quiet about it to their dealers my guess it's that they haven't resolved the issue yet. They may know the cause, but are working with designer and/or mfg for a solution, for example (i don't believe most car companies design their own transmissions).

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You're right, most companies do outsource transmissions to other manufacturers, but I've read that this IVT actually was fully designed and built in-house. Hopefully since it's their tech they can figure this out and rectify it soon, because they're putting this power train in quite a few different models. If there is an inherent flaw in the overall design, **** is REALLY going to hit the fan! I actually really like the transmission. It doesn't feel like any other CVT I've driven and more like a traditional automatic. I feel that they may have flashed the firmware or changed something on my replacement though. Ever since I've gotten it back, it seems more "rubber-bandy" with less fake shifting than when I first bought it. I may just be paranoid from driving that POS loaner though. Mitsubishi has the absolute worst CVT I have ever experienced...
 

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Discussion Starter #24
You do realize that I'm not arguing with you, don't you? ?
My only complaint is that some owners are only posting there complaints on this forum, where it won't make much difference in the eyes of Kia. When they should be posting their complaints to the NHTSA website where it might make a difference, if enough complaints are made.
If you read through the Gen3 forums over the last 6 months you'd think every 2020 sold is having an IVT failure, but the NHTSA website doesn't really reflect that sentiment, unfortunately. ?
I'm just hoping everyone discussing IVT failures here will take the time to officially add their complaints there.
Of course, I was just clarifying why I think it's important. And if this continues, it will get worse for KIA.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
You're right, most companies do outsource transmissions to other manufacturers, but I've read that this IVT actually was fully designed and built in-house. Hopefully since it's their tech they can figure this out and rectify it soon, because they're putting this power train in quite a few different models. If there is an inherent flaw in the overall design, **** is REALLY going to hit the fan! I actually really like the transmission. It doesn't feel like any other CVT I've driven and more like a traditional automatic. I feel that they may have flashed the firmware or changed something on my replacement though. Ever since I've gotten it back, it seems more "rubber-bandy" with less fake shifting than when I first bought it. I may just be paranoid from driving that POS loaner though. Mitsubishi has the absolute worst CVT I have ever experienced...
I don't think you're the first that mentioned the change after the flash; that's what I'm worried about. If the car drives different than what you bought, then it's not the same performance you paid for. It took me several weeks and three test drives to make sure that I really could live with the engine/powertrain combination. It actually has surprised me how much I really like it; for an everyday car it's pretty much all I want. The transmission feels great now, but I don't want them to change it now - though I may not have a choice in the future if something happens. I only have a little over 1600 miles on mine right now and everything has been fine, but the fact that it 'can' happen leaves it in the back of my mind.

Either way, something isn't right with the ones that failed and if they start compensating it by 'tweaking' the performance (by slipping and reducing the simulated shifting points), then the car's character will change and that would really suck. I am definitely worried that everyone that had their transmission changed already with re-manufactured units will possibly fail again - unless they actually 'fix' the issue permanently, I could see how upset these owners would get. I worry too about the resale value of the 2020 Soul, because it will not make it desirable and be shunned by informed buyers in favor of ones that don't have the issue. I intend to keep this car for 6-8 years, as long as it doesn't become a problem child with endless repairs and end up in time-out at the dealer.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
Today, I was walking through a Hyundai dealer and noticed the Elantra's IVT was made in Mexico (as they have for a couple of years). I know my '20 Soul LX engine, transmission, and final assembly were all three in Korea (as I believe all Souls are???) I'm at 3,600 miles with no problems.

I'm wondering if there is a higher IVT failure rate for either factory, or if they both have the same reliability record. Those should be the same basic units, except perhaps some software tweaks between models. This might show if it's a design flaw or perhaps a parts supplier quality issue.
You know, that's an interesting observation. If they are all built in South Korea that's one thing, but if they come from different plants that could be a common denominator in figuring out which ones failed. What are the chances that transmissions from the same plant fail from different plants? I guess it would depend on where the parts came from and if there was a certain part that was defective. None of that will matter if it is a design flaw though, then it is up to them to change the design and fix it. But interesting observation.
 
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You know, that's an interesting observation. If they are all built in South Korea that's one thing, but if they come from different plants that could be a common denominator in figuring out which ones failed. What are the chances that transmissions from the same plant fail from different plants? I guess it would depend on where the parts came from and if there was a certain part that was defective. None of that will matter if it is a design flaw though, then it is up to them to change the design and fix it. But interesting observation.
I agree. It would be much more helpful if we could gather data like this to compare on your study/spreadsheet. It could be as simple as a bad part (or bad batch) used in some or all transmissions, or how THAT PART interacts with a certain part from another maker. Sadly we'll probably never really know what is going on.
 
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I don't think you're the first that mentioned the change after the flash; that's what I'm worried about. If the car drives different than what you bought, then it's not the same performance you paid for. It took me several weeks and three test drives to make sure that I really could live with the engine/powertrain combination. It actually has surprised me how much I really like it; for an everyday car it's pretty much all I want. The transmission feels great now, but I don't want them to change it now - though I may not have a choice in the future if something happens. I only have a little over 1600 miles on mine right now and everything has been fine, but the fact that it 'can' happen leaves it in the back of my mind.

Either way, something isn't right with the ones that failed and if they start compensating it by 'tweaking' the performance (by slipping and reducing the simulated shifting points), then the car's character will change and that would really suck. I am definitely worried that everyone that had their transmission changed already with re-manufactured units will possibly fail again - unless they actually 'fix' the issue permanently, I could see how upset these owners would get. I worry too about the resale value of the 2020 Soul, because it will not make it desirable and be shunned by informed buyers in favor of ones that don't have the issue. I intend to keep this car for 6-8 years, as long as it doesn't become a problem child with endless repairs and end up in time-out at the dealer.
I recently got my 2020 Kia Soul EX Premium back after having the transmission replaced (I sent you a PM). When I saw they had upgraded the EPS and the TCU I had the same concern you did (change in performance). And initially the car did seem sluggish compared to when I first bought it. But after having driven it for a week it has returned to its old responsiveness. The change may have been due to it needing a break-in period. That's purely speculation on my part. Bottom line, it now drives the way it did when I first test drove it, so I'm happy about that. Still concerned that the IVT may fail again.
 

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Well if a salesman said it, it must be true gosh darnit!

Now I have a hankerin for hotcakes. Mmmm...mmmm.
Salesman? You gotta be **itting me! I don't talk to salesmen, except for friendly banter.
When I want answers, I only talk to my Service People, who actually know what's going on.
Like yesterday, when my Service Writer admitted to me that they've had a couple of IVT failures.
They were on IVT's that had NOT received the Software upgrade.
If anyone refuses the upgrade and then has an IVT failure, they just bought themselves a new transmission.
But, it they had NOT been offered the upgrade, and have an IVT failure, KIA will replace the IVT, at no cost.

:cool:
 

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I'm posting this to all the KIA IVT threads to get the word out. KIA has issued a Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) "recall" to replace the IVT software (or possibly replace entire IVT). I had my IVT software replaced yesterday and my Soul drives great so far. This TSB "recall" includes:
* 2020 Soul (build dates up to 4/17/20)
• 2021 Seltos (build dates up to 4/10/20)
• 2019/2020 Forte (build dates up to 4/2/20)
According to the bulletin, this software replacement is to "improve the logic to the IVT system" to correct the following diagnostic trouble codes (DTC's):
P0730 – Incorrect Gear Ratio
P0731 – Gear 1 Incorrect Ratio
P0741 – Torque Converter Clutch Circuit Performance or Stuck Off
P0867 – Transmission fluid pressure
Attached is the Recall TSB, and my Dealer service document (Liberty KIA, Libertyvillle, IL) for more details. My Soul LX has build date of 9/30/2019 and has had 6100 miles with no problems. I think KIA should be sending a notice to all affected customers about this. Let's hope the software update really helps!
 

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Well, we join the 'list' with our 2020 Soul LX AT (IVT), build date 07/2019, purchase date 10/2019. All of 3950 miles, the IVT update/reflash done less than a month ago at her regular semi-annual oil change and today she did the classic rev rumba. My wife was driving just over an hour north of home on a pig-for-rice'n'staples swap. Driving conditions at failure: Freeway, mildly hilly, cruise set at 74mph. Ambient temperature 50 degrees F with light to medium rain. She pulled over immediately, we had talked about the failure mode, called me and called our regular service manager. With approval from both she let it cool a bit and then drove slowly about 4 miles to the next exit, got to a good parking spot and called Kia Roadside. About an hour til the tow got there, a friend met her there to swap stuff and visit, and I drove up and picked her up. Talked to the svc. guy at the dealership it was towed to and got the yadda yadda, no more. They'll call tomorrow. I stayed pretty civil but said a fast fix didn't matter, we had two good cars, but a correct fix did. Am I the first post reflash failure? Grrr.
Meantime my sisters' 2017 Forte with the Atkinson 2.0 and the 6 speed automatic motors smoothly and flawlessly on well over 100k miles.
 

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Well, we join the 'list' with our 2020 Soul LX AT (IVT), build date 07/2019, purchase date 10/2019. All of 3950 miles, the IVT update/reflash done less than a month ago at her regular semi-annual oil change and today she did the classic rev rumba. My wife was driving just over an hour north of home on a pig-for-rice'n'staples swap. Driving conditions at failure: Freeway, mildly hilly, cruise set at 74mph. Ambient temperature 50 degrees F with light to medium rain. She pulled over immediately, we had talked about the failure mode, called me and called our regular service manager. With approval from both she let it cool a bit and then drove slowly about 4 miles to the next exit, got to a good parking spot and called Kia Roadside. About an hour til the tow got there, a friend met her there to swap stuff and visit, and I drove up and picked her up. Talked to the svc. twerp at the dealership it was towed to and got the yadda yadda, no more. They'll call tomorrow. I stayed pretty civil but said a fast fix didn't matter, we had two good cars, but a correct fix did. Am I the first post reflash failure? Grrr.
Meantime my sisters' 2017 Forte with the Atkinson 2.0 and the 6 speed automatic motors smoothly and flawlessly on well over 100k miles.
Well that sucks. I have almost 10k miles on my 20 and the tranny has been perfect. Even with a road trip to New Mexico and back from Dallas. I am so curious what is causing these failures and why only on certain cars out of all of them sold?
 

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I'm baffled too on the 'why some' question. Learned to hate those in a long work life with instrumentation. Dealer called back this AM. Much more straightforward, no yadda yadda. The car is getting a new transmission, parts all in the system, 4 or 5 day estimated repair time. Jane just said yup, thanks, call us when it's done and tested. She gets to drive bluebird, the like new 92 Caravan with 76k miles and I'm demoted to the 2005 Element for the duration:cry:
 

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Update Saturday October 17: The car was done yesterday afternoon, 4 days from when it was towed in, exactly as promised. We picked it up today, checked oil etc., and drove home, about 100 miles, half on state highways and half freeway. Jane says it seems fine. We'll see. Certainly not a confidence builder. I gave it some thought the past few days and decided which of our vehicles I'd take on a 2000 mile trip to the near west at this point, based on reliability, predictable failure modes, availability of parts and mechanics familiar with them... In order from first choice to last (left out the golf cart):

#1: 1992 Dodge Caravan, 3.0L 3 spd auto, 76,000 miles (my work van)
#2: 2005 Honda Element 4WD automatic, 106,000 miles (my go-to-meeting vehicle)
#2: 2020 Kia Soul Lx, 2.0L IVT, 3950 miles (my wifes' vehicle)

We have just about a million miles butt time in the Caravans, either the drivetrain above or the 2.5L TBI with 5 spd manual. What got all of them in the end was rust. Finding the current one was a fluke.

Our Soul is fun to drive, frugal, holds an amazing amount of stuff for its' size, has quite good ground clearance for a small car, etc. etc.; really not much out there like it but really really Kia, first the engine failures and now the IVT.
 

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Are there any "warning signs" for this IVT problem or is it just "sudden death syndrome" of the tranny ? Was never notified by Kia about this "recall". I have about 9000 miles and vehicle is about 11 months old. Per Carfax seems to have been on dealer lot since May of 2019 we bought it in November of 2019. Ours had a lot of bugs when we got it, but they were REAL BUGS (SPIDERS!).
 

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No warning at all in our case. Drove perfectly both before and after the IVT software update. RPM jumping started suddenly, not 'a bit' then more. My guess is that Jane could have made it another 15 miles to a dealer driving slowly after a cooldown but KIAs and my call was the same in this case. Next exit and tow. It did give her time to get the emergency flashers on and get to the shoulder but I had told her exactly what to watch for (thank you forum!) and that may have helped her react.
 
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