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Discussion Starter #1
(I posted this over on the Sorento forum, in case it looks familiar. LOL)

As owner of a 2013 Soul with 77K miles and a 2014 Sorento with 41K miles, I was planning to keep both for at least another 5 years. Love 'em both!

However, I'm seeing more and more cars coming with automated safety nannies standard. As I look at articles on upcoming models from various companies (including Kia/Hyundai), it looks like some/most of the 2019s will have at least automatic braking and lane alert standard. I, for one, dread the idea of driving a car with bells and dingers going off and certainly not one that slams on the brakes when it thinks I need to stop. Jeez, I've been driving over 45 years (cars and motorcycles) and have been accident-free mainly because of 1) absolutely no drinking/driving, 2) absolutely no texting or distracted driving, and 3) I focus on driving and what's going on around me!

I know how to use my mirrors - I don't need a dinger to know someone is beside me. And, I watch the road ahead, unlike those stoooopid drivers on the commercials who had their automatic brakes save their lives because a garbage truck pulled out (bet that only took about 5 or 10 seconds to pull out completely into their lane before they almost rear-end it) and they didn't see it coming. Really? Or the one where a speeding car comes racing up the mountain at redline and comes up on the back of a camper that is stopping for something blocking the road - stupid and reckless driving. Or the one where the automatic brakes kept the car from running over a pedestrian at a crosswalk at a red light. Hello! You weren't expecting that?? Take the bus.

It seems like these electronics are designed to attract the tech-oriented youth. Why else would 90% of the car brochures be dedicated to all the electronics and tech, and just a few words about things like engines, brakes, tires, etc.? They also seem to be targeting drivers who routinely text and drive distracted. Why should the rest of us have to put up with all these bells and whistles (literally) just because people can't put down their phones and pay attention to driving?

When I mentioned this to the Sales Manager at the Hyundai dealer I was shopping, he told me about how the automatic braking saved him the other day when he looked up from his phone and saw a car stopped in his path. I asked him what part of "Don't text and drive" do you not understand? I got the deer in the headlight look. LOL

Hopefully, these nannies will remain optional for at least a few years. And, hopefully, these features will be able to be turned off. Anti-Lock Braking and stability control were great inventions. I've even taken a liking to backup cameras for parking (which would be handy occasionally on my Sorento). But this stuff that tries to make up for inattentive driving is going too far.

Sorry for the rant. Time to start looking at trading early for one of the last model year cars before all that stuff comes standard. Maybe it's time to take advantage of the good rebates on the new Souls. It's going to be hard to pry the 2013 out of my wife's hands, though.


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yes I read it in the other forum, you have a lot of good points. I've been driving since 1960 and also follow your 3 rules you mentioned.

A lot of this at present is pressure from manufacturers like Toyota offered a lot of these features on their lower models as standard, so others have to follow suit to compete. Blind-spot monitoring has been on every vehicle for decades in the forum of your outside mirrors - IF YOU ADJUST THEM CORRECTLY - no extra cost, nothing to go wrong.
However, I read on forums all the time of people complaining because this certain model does not have a particular feature and should have it standard and won't buy it.

You might find this article interesting from CTV news about a month ago with regard the "new safety technology"

https://www.ctvnews.ca/features/how...ctually-be-making-our-driving-worse-1.3823118
 

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Thanks for your write up pnoman.

From what I've read & talked to fellow drivers, most folks turn lane keep assist off. It gets annoying beeping & vibrating all the time. I would think the first time the car slams on the brakes for a paper bag floating across the road, I'd turn that off too.

I agree with you. None of these devices are a substitute for an alert, engaged driver. It's the same reason self driving cars will never evolve into a full replacement of human drivers. Computers don't have a 6th sense, common sense, or for that matter any sense. Anyone who thinks they do doesn't understand how a computer works (1's & 0's).

I can see self driving cars working in dedicated highway or freeway lanes, with more than just painted lanes (ie: possibly magnetic strips embedded in pavement). But as pointed out, that's really more of a luxury & it's doubtful government will actually pay for it, en masse.

Nannies may work best for new or less skilled drivers. A big worry is what happens when things go wrong.

I tend to agree with what Sam says:

 

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Discussion Starter #4
yes I read it in the other forum, you have a lot of good points. I've been driving since 1960 and also follow your 3 rules you mentioned.

A lot of this at present is pressure from manufacturers like Toyota offered a lot of these features on their lower models as standard, so others have to follow suit to compete. Blind-spot monitoring has been on every vehicle for decades in the forum of your outside mirrors - IF YOU ADJUST THEM CORRECTLY - no extra cost, nothing to go wrong.
However, I read on forums all the time of people complaining because this certain model does not have a particular feature and should have it standard and won't buy it.

You might find this article interesting from CTV news about a month ago with regard the "new safety technology"

https://www.ctvnews.ca/features/how...ctually-be-making-our-driving-worse-1.3823118

Thanks. Great article. I love:

“The new technologies are making drivers worse,” he says.

“They’re making (drivers) more complacent because they are drinking the marketing Kool-Aid about the safety features."


Sad but true.
 

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Anything that gives me less control of the car is bad. I didn't even like the electronic stability control that was on my 2010 Kia and is still on my 2014 Sorento. Wish there was a way to turn it off permanently like there is with active eco mode.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Thanks for your write up pnoman.

From what I've read & talked to fellow drivers, most folks turn lane keep assist off. It gets annoying beeping & vibrating all the time. I would think the first time the car slams on the brakes for a paper bag floating across the road, I'd turn that off too.

I agree with you. None of these devices are a substitute for an alert, engaged driver. It's the same reason self driving cars will never evolve into a full replacement of human drivers. Computers don't have a 6th sense, common sense, or for that matter any sense. Anyone who thinks they do doesn't understand how a computer works (1's & 0's).

I can see self driving cars working in dedicated highway or freeway lanes, with more than just painted lanes (ie: possibly magnetic strips embedded in pavement). But as pointed out, that's really more of a luxury & it's doubtful government will actually pay for it, en masse.

Nannies may work best for new or less skilled drivers. A big worry is what happens when things go wrong.

I tend to agree with what Sam says:

Thank you, too. Great video. It's nice to hear common sense expressed instead of marketing hype. To expand on the example he gave in the video, what happens when I'm driving at the speed limit (70mph) on the interstate and one of the crazy gravel truck drivers is following me 10 feet from my back bumper. (You think I'm exaggerating, you're wrong!) Suddenly a paper bag blows across the road and the genius computer decides to save my life by locking up the brakes. Instant pancake. Been nice knowin' ya.

It's scary and dumbfounding to see a Volvo ad with the driver texting and eating. Holy cow!






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^^^^ Great example pnoman!

I also liked the question he proposed: is a self driving car willing to break the law to save your life?

I had a situation where a Metro bus, no signals, pulled out into the side of me. I had 2 options, be hit or cross the double center line into the oncoming lane (it was empty), which is what I executed. I'm wondering if a nanny would have prevented me from crossing the lines?
 

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Hey pnoman - get the hell off my lawn! :D

Seriously - you might just as well get used to it, or plan on driving old cars. If you think brake and park assist is nanny, in 5-10 years you're gonna **** as you look over at the car next to you and the guy's taking a nap or eating a bowl of cereal. Self-driving cars are coming and there's nothing holding them back. Personally, I welcome the nanny-stuff, because most people drive like **** and if you think they'd rather pay attention and have less assist features than be on Facebook, you're seriously deluded. For easily 75% of the driving population, driving is nothing but a chore, to be done and over with, and if there was any other way to efficiently get somewhere at their convenience, they'd do it in a minute. Might as well let the computers drive them around, so that those of us who actually enjoy driving can do so without worrying about all the knuckleheads that don't want to be bothered.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Hey pnoman - get the hell off my lawn! :D

Seriously - you might just as well get used to it, or plan on driving old cars. If you think brake and park assist is nanny, in 5-10 years you're gonna **** as you look over at the car next to you and the guy's taking a nap or eating a bowl of cereal. Self-driving cars are coming and there's nothing holding them back. Personally, I welcome the nanny-stuff, because most people drive like **** and if you think they'd rather pay attention and have less assist features than be on Facebook, you're seriously deluded. For easily 75% of the driving population, driving is nothing but a chore, to be done and over with, and if there was any other way to efficiently get somewhere at their convenience, they'd do it in a minute. Might as well let the computers drive them around, so that those of us who actually enjoy driving can do so without worrying about all the knuckleheads that don't want to be bothered.
I see your point and agree, but it sucks that we all have to pay for those gizmos and put up with their intrusions whether we need/use them or not. Just make them optional - I'd be fine with that.


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Hey pnoman - get the hell off my lawn! :D

Seriously - you might just as well get used to it, or plan on driving old cars. If you think brake and park assist is nanny, in 5-10 years you're gonna **** as you look over at the car next to you and the guy's taking a nap or eating a bowl of cereal. Self-driving cars are coming and there's nothing holding them back. Personally, I welcome the nanny-stuff, because most people drive like **** and if you think they'd rather pay attention and have less assist features than be on Facebook, you're seriously deluded. For easily 75% of the driving population, driving is nothing but a chore, to be done and over with, and if there was any other way to efficiently get somewhere at their convenience, they'd do it in a minute. Might as well let the computers drive them around, so that those of us who actually enjoy driving can do so without worrying about all the knuckleheads that don't want to be bothered.
You are absolutely right jd, there is no stopping these various "nannies." They are a'comin, that's for sure. And driver apathy is huge, like you said. I think most of us on this forum fall more into "interested enthusiasts?" and so we dive deeper into, well, just about everything.

And some are outright fantastic, like adaptive cruise control, traction control, backup cameras, park assist, speed dependent volume etc (insert the ones you like here _______).

I don't think pnoman was suggesting they should be stopped. And for sure it's not an old man "get the hell off my lawn" and "turn down that damn music!" issue, as alot of younger guys express the same sentiment. Just watch some of the younger car reviewers on YouTube. They routinely turn off lane keep, stop/start, automatic emergency braking etc. I like that they explain why they do it.

I can especially see turning on many of those features if you are on a long haul or have a teen/elderly driver.

It really depends on the individual driver and the situation they are in. I'm with pnoman on this, we simply want the "choice" and be able to turn these things on and off. That cuts across all ages and lawns :)

Thanks again pnoman for starting this thread. It's a great discussion on upcoming tech & how it's perceived.
 
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You are absolutely right jd, there is no stopping these various "nannies." They are a'comin, that's for sure. And driver apathy is huge, like you said. I think most of us on this forum fall more into "interested enthusiasts?" and so we dive deeper into, well, just about everything.

And some are outright fantastic, like adaptive cruise control, traction control, backup cameras, park assist, speed dependent volume etc (insert the ones you like here _______).

I don't think pnoman was suggesting they should be stopped. And for sure it's not an old man "get the hell off my lawn" and "turn down that damn music!" issue, as alot of younger guys express the same sentiment. Just watch some of the younger car reviewers on YouTube. They routinely turn off lane keep, stop/start, automatic emergency braking etc. I like that they explain why they do it.

I can especially see turning on many of those features if you are on a long haul or have a teen/elderly driver.

It really depends on the individual driver and the situation they are in. I'm with pnoman on this, we simply want the "choice" and be able to turn these things on and off. That cuts across all ages and lawns :)

Thanks again pnoman for starting this thread. It's a great discussion on upcoming tech & how it's perceived.
Ha! I know it, and I'm just pickin on pnoman. I agree that I wish those features can be turned off - I *hate* the tire pressure indicators. If you live in the mountains, like me, there's a lot of fluctuation based on altitude and temperature, and I'm constantly fooling around with the sensors on my Nissan (the Kia's not as sensitive, but it also sits in the garage).
 

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Did not know that about elevation affecting TPMS JD (thanks).

I have read you can't defeat it either. Well, short of putting a piece of electrical tape over the indicator light.
 

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I read Eric Peters frequently.
He rails against the SAAAAAFETY bozos.
Check him out.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I drove my wife to a meeting about 3 hours from home this week. While I was waiting for her, I visited a few car dealers in the area. When I stopped at the Nissan and Toyota dealers, I asked whether the automatic braking (standard on most of their cars) could be turned off. Yes, but.... it takes scrolling through a menu, and it resets to "on" each time the car is started. Guess I can mark Nissan and Toyota off my shopping lists.

What a shame.

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That really brings up a good point pnoman about the protocols to turn on/off these systems. There are certain circumstances I'd want emergency braking activated & other times not.

On tuesday this week I think I saw emergency braking in action. I was stopped in freeway traffic & saw a young woman entering traffic to my right in a newer Mercedes. She was going too fast as the cars in front of her were stopped at the merge point & she was yacking it up with her passenger. I said out loud "she's going to hit that car." But the Mercedes literally slammed on the brakes. I could tell both her & her passenger were stunned, but stopped inches from the bumper of the car in front.

That was pretty cool. But I was irritated at her for merging on a freeway and just assuming it was clear sailing at the merge. She dodged a bullet this time.
 
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A Blonde? In a Mercedes? Now that's a recipe for disaster any day. Sounds like she needed a Nanny! Eh?
 

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I have mixed feelings about some of the safety nannies, however one I am full agreement with, is Autonomous emergency braking. I don't think there is a driver among us who can honestly say they haven't had an OH **** moment, when they had to jump on the binders at the last second for whatever reason. Some nannies make eminent sense others do not. For instance I find the lane departure and forward collision warnings in my 2016 SX to be more of a nuisance than a help, The forward collision warning is way too sensitive.

Pat.
 

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That collision avoidance thingy didn't work too well on the self driving Uber car that ran over a pedestrian, killing them. Maybe not sensitive enough. ???

As good as it may be, I just thank God that my car doesn't have it. When I can no longer control my own car, I'll hang up my keys.

I wonder if that feature would stop the old gals from driving through the front of 7-11's, etc. That happened to the CVS Pharmacy where I trade....An elderly woman drove her car right through the big Automatic front doors. It took the store three months to get new doors installed.

:cool:
 

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Now THAT would be the best nanny of all. Would they call it "Stupid Assist" or "Crap Driver Avoidance?" :)
 

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Some time back, there was some talk of putting a little puzzle in the car, that one would have to solve in a certain time, before the car would start.
The idea was to block anyone who was drunk, high or otherwise mentally impaired from driving the car. Need I tell you, that didn't get very far?

If I ever get enough money to acquire my dream car, it will have NO Nannies!

My Toronado 1966.jpg

Just a 400 BHP V8 and a 160mph top end.

Cheers Mates!
:cool:
 
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