[ndsports]

I been bored at work about reading on for as little as $200.00 you can install a unit in just about anycar to be cable to convert water to The HHO is sucked into your air intake and burned with gasoline.

I did a little reasearch and people who have try it say they get about a 40% increase. I mean i know this sounds crazy and it is probably a scam, but since im bored at work, i might do a little looking around. But would be funny with a little mod i can get the gas mileage of a new 2012 kia soul.

Check out this ebay link - HHO Gas Kit

Any thought for anybody?

 

[616Nickel]

The short answer is it doesn't work. You need to use electrical energy to cause water to decompose into hydrogen and oxygen, and all energy on a car (including that used to power electrical devices) ultimately comes from the gas tank. That's takes care of the First Law of Thermodynamics: You can't get more energy out of a system than you put into it.

But it's actually significantly worse than that, and that's where the Second Law of Thermodynamics comes into it. In simple terms, whenever an energy conversion is performed, some of the energy will be lost, and we have at least two conversions to consider: From chemical energy (gasoline) to electrical energy, and from electrical energy back to chemical energy (electrolysis). The real-world energy efficiency of water electrolysis is 50-80%, which means that you'll use 25%-100% more gasoline energy than you'll get in hydrogen.

Now, if you had a hydrogen tank on board, with all the injection apparatus required to inject a precise amount into the cylinders at the exact right time, it's conceivable that you might be able to increase raw fuel efficiency slightly. But you'd still need to pay for the hydrogen (which includes the cost of producing it, usually from natural gas reforming), and that would almost certainly cost more than the small amount of fuel you'd save.

 

[kfergiez]

Any thought for anybody?

NNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!


If you really want to cut your gas bill, try a CNG conversion. Kits start at about $500, but for $1.75 a gallon equivalent, that's not too shabby.

 

[ndsports]

NNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!


If you really want to cut your gas bill, try a CNG conversion. Kits start at about $500, but for $1.75 a gallon equivalent, that's not too shabby.

coverting the soul to natural gas?

http://www.greencar.com/articles/can-convert-natural-gas.php

looks like united states has strict rules about this stuff.

 

[kfergiez]

Yeah yeah yeah..... Rules Shmules.

Prices- CNG conversion kits cylinders tanks

If you give these guys a call, they are pretty up front and honest about things. I asked them about the rules that you cited and they told me that it's okay because you are not modifying any of the emissions devices on the car, you are just adding a regulator. That said, they did say that in California, they require a CARB certified system which they do sell, but that's the only state. The nice lady also said that when people go get emissions tested, they just remove the regulator from under their hood and run the car on gas, then the install it back onto the car. there ya go.

 

[tempest]

Surely driving at speed on a damp rainy day does the same thing?...... does your fuel consumption improve by 40% when you do?.......lol

 

[ndsports]

Yeah yeah yeah..... Rules Shmules.

Prices- CNG conversion kits cylinders tanks

If you give these guys a call, they are pretty up front and honest about things. I asked them about the rules that you cited and they told me that it's okay because you are not modifying any of the emissions devices on the car, you are just adding a regulator. That said, they did say that in California, they require a CARB certified system which they do sell, but that's the only state. The nice lady also said that when people go get emissions tested, they just remove the regulator from under their hood and run the car on gas, then the install it back onto the car. there ya go.

How much to get it installed correctly? about 1k ? thats alot of money.

 

[kfergiez]

To have it installed by a pro.... i'm thinking more towards the 3-4k mark. But then again, you are paying a quarter of the price for the fuel.

 

[tempest]

To have it installed by a pro.... i'm thinking more towards the 3-4k mark. But then again, you are paying a quarter of the price for the fuel.

How much gasoline could you buy with 3-4k?.... and how long would it take to recoup 3-4k with the cheaper fuel?.

 

[ndsports]

yea not worth it, plus the tank and stuff to put in your car. Thats why the hho thing is a better idea, if it worked. Only adding parts, to help with fuel. instead of trying to convert the whole thing.

 

[kfergiez]

That's the problem with snake oil fixes like HHO. It just doesn't do jack squat. If you really want to alter your car in some way, you've got to pay a pretty penny.

The neat thing with the CNG is you are not altering the car in any way. You are adding a piece of plastic to you air intake, the tank, plus some electronics. Your car remains unaltered and undamaged. Plus you can run on Gas or CNG and switch between the two seamlessly.

I'm thinking about spending the $500 on my old junker toyota camry. We use it to commute every day, and spending $500-700 to pay $1.75 a gallon is worth it to us. We will recoup the costs in just 3 months time. We commute THAT much.

If I DO put it on the toyota, I'll be sure to let you guys know how it works out.

 

[ndsports]

yea let us know. Because i thought i saw for the tank to go in my car, its like huge and wouldnt fit in the car.

unless this is it -

I wonder if that tank could be mounted under the soul, or where the the spare tire is.

Tank looks pretty big, and I need the souls back room for hockey stuff. so unless the tank can be mounted somewhere else on the car, not worth it.

Plus i just checked the only public filling station for natural gas, is right by my work. But i just checked the price and its $3.50 - per gge. Which is crazy. Here in chicago we are getting ripped off on any sort of fueling. more than double the rest of the countries prices. I see 1.50 elsewhere

 

[kfergiez]

Yeah, if it's $3.50 for gge, that's not worth it. It would take you YEARS to recoup the cost.
As for the tank mounting, I'd go for something that would fit the spare tire area. There is just no room on the underside unless you remove the Gasoline tank. There are different sizes of tanks you can get too.

 

[ndsports]

Yeah, if it's $3.50 for gge, that's not worth it. It would take you YEARS to recoup the cost.
As for the tank mounting, I'd go for something that would fit the spare tire area. There is just no room on the underside unless you remove the Gasoline tank. There are different sizes of tanks you can get too.

Well i have lots of autobody friends. People who build racecars and stuff. So installing a kit probably wouldn't be to hard. you said 500.00 for the kit? Shouldn't take years to recoup.

 

[kfergiez]

Well, depending on how much you drive. But with gas at $4.00 and your CNG at $3.50, that $0.50 difference... not much.

CNG is only $1.75 here.

 

[ndsports]

yes exactly, not worth it for the current price by me. But for your pice. it is worth it.

 

[kfergiez]

Yep, I'll let you guys know by the end of summer when the wife lets my spend some money....