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Sounds like a grounding issue.
 

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Discussion Starter #22
Ok, so I went home for my lunch hour (I live nearby work), and tried to start my wife's 13 Soul. This time, it didn't seem like an electrical issue because there was no clicking, the starter was actually cranking, it would seem it would try to start then die. Seemed like wasn't getting enough fuel. Even though it's fuel injected, I thought, let's give it a little gas. Same result, seemed like it wanted to start, starter was turning over, but no fire/combustion. So I let it sit for a few minutes, thought I'd smell gas but this isn't the carbureted days so it doesn't make sense that it could have flooded, does it? Anyhow, I already checked all battery connections and took a peep underneath at the starter connections, jiggled a few things around, seemed tight, and gave the starter a few little taps with my flashlight, like that would help.

After all that, I tried cranking it again and this time it seemed to go farther, then die, so I said WTH give it some gas while I'm cranking it and the dang thing started up like a race engine. I let it idle for about 15 minutes then took it on a 10 minute drive return to work (hope it doesn't leave me stranded on the parking lot tonight). So I'm thinking, and I will be the first to admit if it's my fault, the fact that I started it with the new battery twice yesterday but did not let it idle or drive around could have affected the fuel injection part of the starting process? Because I should have remembered when I replace the battery on my other vehicle, I need to run it for a few minutes to let the ECM recalibrate the air/fuel mixture settings.

Btw, I did buy a battery cable and will use it as a third ground strap much to the chagrin of some of our colleagues here :wink-new: but I just want to cover all bases. Just have to decide the proper spot but looks like most of you pro-grounding guys like the top part of the engine, which looks in my case to be painted black, is that the valve cover? And how do you remove that plastic cover on top of the engine? TIA
 

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You keep saying the starter cranks and the lights come on and you have a new battery but you keep chasing electrical issues. Why?

Why would you check a starter and a ground strap after the car cranks?.
I think you need a mechanic.
 

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It's not cranking and not starting at first and then it starts cranking and fires up after a new battery but then again stops cranking before it mysteriously starts cranking again without starting??? Pull any codes. There seems to be some information missing.
Greg
 

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At this point, I think I would be looking to see if the electrical system is charging the battery. Since there is minimum charge required to turn the car over, the battery may be draining to run the car and not charging. I have not kept up with the Souls in this regard but a voltage regulator used to be the culprit with these indications. Go to a mechanic and get your system checked out. Fords used to be notorious for this behaviour, not enough charge to lift the starting relay and crank the engine, but all the lights come on since there is enough of a charge for that.

On another note, it is not fair to the OP who has a genuine problem to be subjected to everyone's personal bias. If you cannot say anything helpful in a nice way, don't say anything at all.
 

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I agree, like any vehicle, corrosion can effect any ground over time so appropriate measure maybe required. I did not encounter any problems with my 2012 model with regards grounding in my 4.5 years of ownership and 5 southern Ontario winters. However, I did find that on my 2016 model that there is more grounding points of the various electrical wires than on my 2012 model.

I think the reason for multiple ground connections to the chassis is to eliminate long ground wires back to the battery as opposed to a "better or more reliable ground."
 

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Discussion Starter #28
You keep saying the starter cranks and the lights come on and you have a new battery but you keep chasing electrical issues. Why?

Why would you check a starter and a ground strap after the car cranks?.
I think you need a mechanic.
It's not cranking and not starting at first and then it starts cranking and fires up after a new battery but then again stops cranking before it mysteriously starts cranking again without starting??? Pull any codes. There seems to be some information missing.
Greg
I apologize if I wasn't clear on my wordy posts that got you guys thinking this way. So here's another attempt:

Before I replaced the battery: Turned the ignition key, two clicks, don't hear the starter cranking (or turning over a better term?), dash lights all on.

After I replaced the battery: Turned the ignition key, started right up, let it idle for less than a minute, shut it down, the tried it again, started right up again. Then shut it off for the night.

Day after I replaced the battery: Turned the ignition key, starter was turning over but motor won't fire up. Tried again, depressing gas pedal while cranking, almost started but died. Let it sit for a couple minutes, tried again and depressed gas pedal again because I felt it coming along until it fired up. This time I let it idle for 10 minutes then drove it around another 15 minutes, took it to dinner and groceries last night and started up each time. Seems fine now.

I did not depress the gas pedal before I changed the battery because i was suspecting the battery was bad as some of you confirmed, starter not even cranking, just the click-clicks. I know there was a debate on whether or not depressing the gas pedal actually helps on starting up, here it is: http://www.kiasoulforums.com/10-soul-problems/105506-conflicting-opinions.html but the thread is closed probably because of the volatile discussion it brought up that I don't mean to re-hash here :smile: But I'm just saying if I did not give it gas after changing the battery, I don't think it would have started, just my experience.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
At this point, I think I would be looking to see if the electrical system is charging the battery. Since there is minimum charge required to turn the car over, the battery may be draining to run the car and not charging. I have not kept up with the Souls in this regard but a voltage regulator used to be the culprit with these indications. Go to a mechanic and get your system checked out. Fords used to be notorious for this behaviour, not enough charge to lift the starting relay and crank the engine, but all the lights come on since there is enough of a charge for that.

On another note, it is not fair to the OP who has a genuine problem to be subjected to everyone's personal bias. If you cannot say anything helpful in a nice way, don't say anything at all.
Well I did the cheap way to check and measured voltage across the battery terminals with the car off, it was around 12V DC, then did the same thing with the car running, it was above 12, maybe 13-14 V (as my voltmeter has a needle, not digital), so can I assume the alternator is charging the battery? We're letting it sit today and I'll probably take it to work tomorrow so it doesn't sit for more than two consecutive days. Just a month ago I left the Soul in long-term parking outdoors at the airport when I went out of town for two weeks, and the temp was in the 20's, started up fine when I got back in town. I'll see tomorrow morning after sitting again overnight with the new battery, since we used it last night to run errands (about 1 hr accumulated drive time). Btw, thanks for your remark.
 

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I think you're right. I'm seeing pics of Soul's with original batteries and mine looks to have the original based on the label. Funny I don't see a date code on it like you normally see on batteries. I hope that's the only issue, but real weird how it was used a couple of days ago with no issues and just because the temp changed drastically that may have broke the straw so to speak. But I'm looking at FL Hamster's posts too in case changing the battery didn't help, have a lot to go through ;) Thanks for the quick replies.
Date code is in a classified Kia code
Should rear O.L.D.
 

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Discussion Starter #31
I agree, like any vehicle, corrosion can effect any ground over time so appropriate measure maybe required. I did not encounter any problems with my 2012 model with regards grounding in my 4.5 years of ownership and 5 southern Ontario winters. However, I did find that on my 2016 model that there is more grounding points of the various electrical wires than on my 2012 model.

I think the reason for multiple ground connections to the chassis is to eliminate long ground wires back to the battery as opposed to a "better or more reliable ground."
Well, multiple ground paths will still results in better grounding, right? Anyhow, I'm not arguing this point as I mentioned I'll still attach a third grounding wire just to cover all bases, not going to hurt anything and doesn't take much to do. I do find it interesting in the pictures that there's still paint where the ground points are, they must have conductive paint, eh? Lol
 

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Well, multiple ground paths will still results in better grounding, right? Anyhow, I'm not arguing this point as I mentioned I'll still attach a third grounding wire just to cover all bases, not going to hurt anything and doesn't take much to do. I do find it interesting in the pictures that there's still paint where the ground points are, they must have conductive paint, eh? Lol
If a circuit is 100% grounded an extra ground strap won't improve anything.
 

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. I do find it interesting in the pictures that there's still paint where the ground points are, they must have conductive paint, eh? Lol
why not, as all vehicle are manufactured this way as they are dipped in tanks and then painted long before all the fittings are installed in the vehicle, so this is nothing new. The grounding is made when they install the bolt through the metal body. I don't think they would have any one scraping bits of paint away from a ground point on a high volume production line, so it must work. Also any removal of bare metal would be open to corrosion over time and defeat the process.
 

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Grome said: "and gave the starter a few little taps with my flashlight, like that would help."

Actually...sometimes that DOES help!
The brushes get hung up in the starter from carbon dust buildup and a "few taps" jars them loose and back into proper position against the starters armature.
You've performed an age-old mechanics trick know it or not.
It's been known to work on alternators and fuel pumps as well.
 

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why not, as all vehicle are manufactured this way as they are dipped in tanks and then painted long before all the fittings are installed in the vehicle, so this is nothing new. The grounding is made when they install the bolt through the metal body. I don't think they would have any one scraping bits of paint away from a ground point on a high volume production line, so it must work. Also any removal of bare metal would be open to corrosion over time and defeat the process.
That's exactly correct. The bold threads cut away the paint and the contact pressure between them is so high that the metal asperities basically get "fused" together. The bolt itself gets stretched elastically, that's how high the pressure is. No humidity or air can get in there.
Scarping the paint is useless, the contact pressure between those big surfaces will never be so high (P=F/A), air and humidity will get in between them and eventually make an insulating oxide film. You would have to add some dielectric grease to protect that connection. However, the contact pressure is still weak, and at microscopic level, there is not enough contact surface.
That's why the electrical washers have those sharp "teeth" - to create high pressure points that will bite the metal and "fuse" the surfaces at microscopic level, and grease is non needed.

Also, adding another connection point is worthless if the fist one is fine. It's easy to check the voltage drop over one of those connection points, with a good DC meter that has "HOLD" function. Start the car and read the voltage drop (for the starting current, that's 10-20 larger than normal operating current).

For people that can understand basic physics and college level math:
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19700032666.pdf

PS: The "multiple" grounds seen in other cars are just bonding elements, not a battery ground. In this way, some sensors that don't take high currents, won't require two wires, they will be just referenced to the car chassis ground. This way the wires in the loom are less numerous, making the wire loom cheaper.
 

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For what its worth, I have noticed my car has a hard time starting ( and idles rough), after sitting overnight, when I have done a quick start and shut her back off without a "warm up". Since there are 3 cars in my driveway, I often have to move mine out of the way so that my son or my wife can get their cars out. When I fire it up and move it over or move to the street, I typically just fire it up....pull it out... and shut her back off. Well, she doesn't like that the next morning. When I start the next morning, it cranks longer and then idles rough. Once it even threw a misfire code. After revving it up and clearing it out, it runs fine.
I figure it has something to do with the rich mixture when in open loop at start up, and then being shut back off too soon. I try to remember to let it idles a few minutes (3-4 works fine)before shutting it back off and the problem never happens if I do this. It only (and often) does it when I "start it....throw it in gear...move to street...and shut it back off".
Sounds to me like the OP had a bad battery at first, then found himself with the weird "rich starting issue" I have seen over the years. And BTW, when it happens, it does help to give it a little gas, reminiscent of the old carbureted cars.
 

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Ours has had 2 or 3 misfires in 6 years of ownership.
An occasional rough idle as well.
I think it's par for the course in most any vehicle, as nothing is ever really perfect 100% of the time.
All in all, for what you pay for what you get, the Soul continues to amaze & delight most owners with it's reliability.
 
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