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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Just an update. So far 2 days and no check engine light. I filled the tank up and the car started right up - so it was the purge control valve. Can this thread be marked as "solved" in hopes of helping other fellow Soul owners with this problem?
 

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Just an update. So far 2 days and no check engine light. I filled the tank up and the car started right up - so it was the purge control valve. Can this thread be marked as "solved" in hopes of helping other fellow Soul owners with this problem?
Change the thread title and add "SOLVED: " to the start of it. I think that's the only way to do that here.
 

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^^^Done!
 

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Just an update. So far 2 days and no check engine light. I filled the tank up and the car started right up - so it was the purge control valve. Can this thread be marked as "solved" in hopes of helping other fellow Soul owners with this problem?
Hey Brancarr, congrats on a successful CSI on the CEL!

This will help folks in the future with the same problem. Just to be clear, it sounds like you did the replacement valve yourself & had the dealer reset the CEL?

Would you mind writing a little bit about the replacement procedure (hard? easy?) & what the part(s) cost? Is this something lay people can do or should it be left to a pro?

Thanks again for sharing your P0441 experience.
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 · (Edited)
Hey Brancarr, congrats on a successful CSI on the CEL!

This will help folks in the future with the same problem. Just to be clear, it sounds like you did the replacement valve yourself & had the dealer reset the CEL?

Would you mind writing a little bit about the replacement procedure (hard? easy?) & what the part(s) cost? Is this something lay people can do or should it be left to a pro?

Thanks again for sharing your P0441 experience.
-P0441 Fault Code Description-

The Engine Control Module (ECM) tests the Evaporative Emission (EVAP) system for the following conditions:

- Large and small leaks

- Excess vacuum

- Purge flow during non-commanded conditions

- Fuel Level and Fuel Pressure sensor faults

- EVAP Purge and Vent Valve faults

The ECM monitors the Fuel Tank Pressure sensor in order to determine the level of vacuum/pressure in the EVAP system. The ECM commands both the EVAP Purge Solenoid and the EVAP Vent Valve ON when the conditions are met in order to apply an engine vacuum to the EVAP system. The ECM commands the EVAP Purge Solenoid OFF once the system has reached a predetermined level of vacuum. This test verifies if a vacuum can be achieved in the EVAP system. Failure to develop a vacuum may be caused by a large leak or a restriction. More can be found here: http://engine-codes.com/p0441_kia.html


The CEL was on when I bought the car. I had the code pulled and it produced the p0441 code. I checked out the canister and lines and they all looked to be okay. This led me to believe that the Purge control solenoid valve was faulty. After doing some research, I found that it's quite common on several KIA models. I picked up the valve at a local auto parts for $49.00. The valve on a 2011 2.0l engine is mounted on the back of the intake manifold. It is held in place with a rubber sleeve attached to a metal bracket. The valve itself has two vacuum lines and an electrical connector. There is a vacuum line on the bottom and top, and the electrical plug plugs into the side of it. It should be noted, that the faulty valve was making a continuous ticking sound, almost sounding like a fuel injector, if you have this CEL code and yours is making this ticking sound, it's most likely faulty. This is because the internal electromagnetic valve failed which prevents it from remaining open to purge the excess fuel vapor from the fuel tank to the intake.

Replacing the part was pretty easy actually, aside from a scrapped knuckle and a few curse words. Space was a bit of an issue. I attempted to do the replacement with the air intake pipe attached to the throttle body. I quickly realized that it'd be much easier removed. With a bit of mechanical knowledge, I believe this part can be changed without taking it to a mechanic or dealer - this could potentially save fellow Soul owners a lot of money. Below I'll take it step by step for those who want to attempt it. (sorry I didn't take pictures)

1. Locate and Identify the Purge control Valve - The valve is located just behind and underneath of the intake manifold. There is a vacuum line attached to the top and the bottom and an electrical plug on the side.

2. Loosen the clamps and remove (or slide aside) the black plastic intake pipe from the throttle body.

3. Gently pull the valve off the mounting bracket on the manifold (it's mounted on it with a rubber sleeve).

4. Unplug the electrical connector from the valve by squeezing the locking clip on the plug.

5. Disconnect the vacuum lines (top and bottom) by removing the small squeeze hose clamps with a small pair of pliers. These rubber hoses may seem like they are stuck to the valve, simply twist lightly and the hoses should free up allowing you to pull them off. (TAKE NOTE OF WHICH LINE CAME OFF FROM WHICH SIDE). The upper hose goes to the intake manifold and the lower goes to the fuel tank. If these are installed incorrectly, the Emissions Purge Control System will not operate correctly and throw the same CEL.

6. Remove the rubber mounting sleeve from the old valve by sliding it off and install it on the new valve.

7. Re-installation is the exact reverse procedure as the removal process.

Once it's done, you can remove your negative battery cable for a few minutes to remove the CEL code from the system. I chose instead to use a code scan tool to reset the CEL.

That's pretty much it folks. I hope this helps someone out! Cheers!
 

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Awesome writeup Brancarr. Thanks very much!
 
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Very nice writeup. There's one thing I'd like to mention, though.

If your car is due for inspection, it may be better not to reset the OBD2 system after working on the EVAP subsystem. Once you reset it, it can take quite a while for the systems to become "ready" again; and in most U.S. states, more than one "not ready" indication will cause the vehicle to fail the inspection or be deferred.

The EVAP system usually will reset itself after one full cold-start drive cycle followed by another cold start and warm-up, with or without a subsequent drive cycle. The system basically wants to know that the various valves and sensors are all working properly, and most of the EVAP-specific tests are performed during start-up and warm-up.

I don't remember the Kia drive cycle offhand, and I don't know if the Soul drive cycle is the same one that was used for my Sportage or my Hyundai Santa Fe. I'll check ALLDATA later on and see if they have the exact drive cycle. Over the years, however, I've found that the following sequence will qualify as a "drive cycle" on practically any car:


  • A cold start followed by five minutes of warmup time with no input from the driver.
  • Two miles of driving at "city" speed, with at least two full stops and at least 30 seconds of idling after at least one of the stops.
  • Normal acceleration to "highway" speed, followed by five miles driven at or close to that speed.
  • Passive deceleration (no brakes or shifting) back to "city" speed, followed by a mile or more driving at that speed, ending with a full stop and 30 seconds of idling.
  • Somewhat more aggressive acceleration back to "highway" speed, followed by five miles driven at that speed, during which you will slow down to a speed halfway between "city" and "highway" speed three times using the brakes (and optionally the clutch / transmission), and then returning to "highway" speed each time with normal acceleration.
  • Passive deceleration (no brakes or clutch) from highway speed back to city speed, followed by normal deceleration once city speed has been reached, ending with a full stop and 30 seconds idling.
  • Normal acceleration from full stop back to "city" speed with a short distance driven at that speed.
  • Active deceleration (at least tap the brakes) ending with a full stop.
  • Engine shutdown.
  • Key removed, door opened, people out, doors locked and closed.
  • At least five minutes parked.

Not all of these steps are needed for every car, but I've found the above will qualify as a drive cycle for any car I've ever driven; so if I don't know the manufacturer drive cycle, the above is what I use.

Any driving done afterwards won't count as another drive cycle unless the engine is "cold" at the start of it (that is, within a few degrees of ambient air temperature). A few manufacturers also require a few hours to have passed since the last time the car was driven; so if I want to get two drive cycles done in a day and I don't know the specific requirement, I let the car sit for four hours before attempting the second one. That usually meets both requirements.

During each of the drive cycle stages, the OBD2 system is checking for various things that should be happening. Some subsystems require multiple drive cycles for the test to be considered "ready." Others only require one, or even a single start and warmup with no actual driving. EVAP is in the middle complexity-wise. Usually two fault-free engine starts (with warmup) with one drive cycle in between will make it ready and extinguish the CEL -- IF the OBD2 hasn't been cleared.

But when you clear the codes, it takes much longer for the system to become "ready" because ALL of the subsystems now have to be re-tested. Some of the systems (like Cat and Heated O2, for example) take a lot longer than EVAP does to become ready, so it could easily take a week or two of regular driving (or two or three tedious cold-start drive cycles) to make the more complex systems ready for inspection. During this time, the CEL will be extinguished (unless OBD2 has detected other problems), but the car still won't pass inspection.

The reason I mention this is because a lot of CELs only get addressed when the car's about due for inspection. Most of them don't affect the car's operation very much (if at all), so many drivers put off the repairs until inspection time if they know it's "just an emissions problem." Clearing the OBD2 system, in this case, can cause you to miss the deadline and/or have to do repeated, tedious drive cycles.

Most CELs will clear themselves after one or two drive cycles once the problem is corrected. Some, like some of the misfire codes, will clear themselves after a single start and a few minutes of idling. Clearing the whole OBD2 system turns off the light, but it almost always prolongs the time before the car will pass an OBD2 inspection.

Richard

EDIT: One thing I forgot... a drive cycle for the purpose of getting the OBD2 system ready or testing / resetting any fuel system-related codes should be performed when the tank is neither almost full nor almost empty. Generally speaking, anywhere between 1/4 and 3/4 full are okay. If the tank is nearly full or nearly empty, some of the tests (including EVAP) won't run.
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Very nice writeup. There's one thing I'd like to mention, though.

If your car is due for inspection, it may be better not to reset the OBD2 system after working on the EVAP subsystem. Once you reset it, it can take quite a while for the systems to become "ready" again; and in most U.S. states, more than one "not ready" indication will cause the vehicle to fail the inspection or be deferred.

The EVAP system usually will reset itself after one full cold-start drive cycle followed by another cold start and warm-up, with or without a subsequent drive cycle. The system basically wants to know that the various valves and sensors are all working properly, and most of the EVAP-specific tests are performed during start-up and warm-up.

I don't remember the Kia drive cycle offhand, and I don't know if the Soul drive cycle is the same one that was used for my Sportage or my Hyundai Santa Fe. I'll check ALLDATA later on and see if they have the exact drive cycle. Over the years, however, I've found that the following sequence will qualify as a "drive cycle" on practically any car:


  • A cold start followed by five minutes of warmup time with no input from the driver.
  • Two miles of driving at "city" speed, with at least two full stops and at least 30 seconds of idling after at least one of the stops.
  • Normal acceleration to "highway" speed, followed by five miles driven at or close to that speed.
  • Passive deceleration (no brakes or shifting) back to "city" speed, followed by a mile or more driving at that speed, ending with a full stop and 30 seconds of idling.
  • Somewhat more aggressive acceleration back to "highway" speed, followed by five miles driven at that speed, during which you will slow down to a speed halfway between "city" and "highway" speed three times using the brakes (and optionally the clutch / transmission), and then returning to "highway" speed each time with normal acceleration.
  • Passive deceleration (no brakes or clutch) from highway speed back to city speed, followed by normal deceleration once city speed has been reached, ending with a full stop and 30 seconds idling.
  • Normal acceleration from full stop back to "city" speed with a short distance driven at that speed.
  • Active deceleration (at least tap the brakes) ending with a full stop.
  • Engine shutdown.
  • Key removed, door opened, people out, doors locked and closed.
  • At least five minutes parked.

Not all of these steps are needed for every car, but I've found the above will qualify as a drive cycle for any car I've ever driven; so if I don't know the manufacturer drive cycle, the above is what I use.

Any driving done afterwards won't count as another drive cycle unless the engine is "cold" at the start of it (that is, within a few degrees of ambient air temperature). A few manufacturers also require a few hours to have passed since the last time the car was driven; so if I want to get two drive cycles done in a day and I don't know the specific requirement, I let the car sit for four hours before attempting the second one. That usually meets both requirements.

During each of the drive cycle stages, the OBD2 system is checking for various things that should be happening. Some subsystems require multiple drive cycles for the test to be considered "ready." Others only require one, or even a single start and warmup with no actual driving. EVAP is in the middle complexity-wise. Usually two fault-free engine starts (with warmup) with one drive cycle in between will make it ready and extinguish the CEL -- IF the OBD2 hasn't been cleared.

But when you clear the codes, it takes much longer for the system to become "ready" because ALL of the subsystems now have to be re-tested. Some of the systems (like Cat and Heated O2, for example) take a lot longer than EVAP does to become ready, so it could easily take a week or two of regular driving (or two or three tedious cold-start drive cycles) to make the more complex systems ready for inspection. During this time, the CEL will be extinguished (unless OBD2 has detected other problems), but the car still won't pass inspection.

The reason I mention this is because a lot of CELs only get addressed when the car's about due for inspection. Most of them don't affect the car's operation very much (if at all), so many drivers put off the repairs until inspection time if they know it's "just an emissions problem." Clearing the OBD2 system, in this case, can cause you to miss the deadline and/or have to do repeated, tedious drive cycles.

Most CELs will clear themselves after one or two drive cycles once the problem is corrected. Some, like some of the misfire codes, will clear themselves after a single start and a few minutes of idling. Clearing the whole OBD2 system turns off the light, but it almost always prolongs the time before the car will pass an OBD2 inspection.

Richard

EDIT: One thing I forgot... a drive cycle for the purpose of getting the OBD2 system ready or testing / resetting any fuel system-related codes should be performed when the tank is neither almost full nor almost empty. Generally speaking, anywhere between 1/4 and 3/4 full are okay. If the tank is nearly full or nearly empty, some of the tests (including EVAP) won't run.
I do agree with you. I live in Florida where there are no state inspections so it wasn't a worry for me, however, in states that do it may not be a good idea to reset the OBDII system.
 

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Gotta question and hope it's not too stupid.lol! I purchases a 2010 Soul about two weeks ago. I changed the plugs and air filter last Friday and didn't drive it much until Monday. The check engine light came on on the way home from work. My code reader identified it as P0441. I didn't overfill the tank and haven't check the Purge valve yet. But I did check the gas cap. Here's the dumb question,is the click fairly noticeable? I turned it quite hard and thought I heard a very faint click. But it was so faint, I'm not 100% positive.LOL! I appreciate any feedback.
 

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Gotta question and hope it's not too stupid.lol! I purchases a 2010 Soul about two weeks ago. I changed the plugs and air filter last Friday and didn't drive it much until Monday. The check engine light came on on the way home from work. My code reader identified it as P0441. I didn't overfill the tank and haven't check the Purge valve yet. But I did check the gas cap. Here's the dumb question,is the click fairly noticeable? I turned it quite hard and thought I heard a very faint click. But it was so faint, I'm not 100% positive.LOL! I appreciate any feedback.
yes its faint, but you can hear it, if that was the problem it may take a little time before the CEL will reset. New models have a separate warning light just for the cap, its no longer part of the CEL warning light.
 

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On my 2010 you sometimes hear the click and other times you don't. Never had a CEL for the cap....
 

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Hi, If you are only getting problems when you fill up and you have replaced Purge control solenoid valve that only leaves the canister, canister close valve and Tank air filter. Hopefully canister outlet valve or air filter not allowing canister to work properly.

Jeff
 

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On gen 2 models the gas cap click is quite loud & noticeable.
 
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The 5yr/60k warranty carries over to subsequent owners but the 100k powertrain does not.
So...If you car is less than 5 years old with under 60k on it, then Yes...your car would Still be covered under the (bumper-bumper) warranty
When I bought my 2018 Soul + I also purchased the extended warranty. My engine light came on today and code says Evaporative Emission System Incorrect Purge Flow. My warranty should cover that right I still have 4k left on the original, 60k
 

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When I bought my 2018 Soul + I also purchased the extended warranty. My engine light came on today and code says Evaporative Emission System Incorrect Purge Flow. My warranty should cover that right I still have 4k left on the original, 60k
It should, but check your gas cap first. It should click when it’s tight. Also make sure the seal on the cap and filler is clean. It could be as simple as that.
 

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It should, but check your gas cap first. It should click when it’s tight. Also make sure the seal on the cap and filler is clean. It could be as simple as that.
That was the first thing I did when I looked it up on this forum. I had never heard that before. I just bought the car in September.
 

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That was the first thing I did when I looked it up on this forum. I had never heard that before. I just bought the car in September.
The original poster solved his issue in post #21 and has a nice description of the repair in post #26. If it’s just the purge valve, it’s an easy repair and inexpensive.

But if you’re under warranty call the dealer to make sure it’s covered and let them do it.

 
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