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Discussion Starter #1
as the 2017 Soul Turbo will be available with a 7-speed dual clutch transmission, many (like me) might be curious as to how different it will feel and operate compared to a manual and conventional automatic transmissions. This info is straight out of the owners manual, so I thought this might be a good reference for potential future owners or for members just curious about it. Some of it is just common sense.

• The Dual Clutch Transmission gives the driving feel of a manual transmission, yet provides the ease of a fully automatic transmission. Unlike a traditional automatic transmission, the gear shifting can be felt (and heard) on the dual clutch transmission
- Think of it as an automatically shifting manual transmission.
- Shift into Drive range and get fully automatic shifting, similar to a conventional automatic transmission.

• Dual clutch transmission adopts dry-type dual clutch, which is different from torque converter of automatic transmission, and shows better acceleration performance during driving. But, initial launch might be little bit slower than Automatic Transmission.

• The dry-type clutch transfers torque and provides a direct driving feeling which may feel different from a conventional automatic transmission with a torque converter. This may be more noticeable when starting from a stop or low vehicle speed.

• When rapidly accelerating at low vehicle speed, engine could rev at high rpm depending on vehicle drive condition.

• For smooth launch uphill, press down the accelerator pedal smoothly depending on the current conditions.

• If you release your foot from the accelerator pedal at low vehicle speed, you may feel strong engine brake, which is similar to manual transmission.

• When driving downhill, you may use Sports Mode (manual operation)and press the paddle shifters or manual shift to downshift to a lower gear in order to control your speed without using the brake pedal excessively.

• When you turn the engine on and off, you may hear clicking sounds as the system goes through a self test. This is a normal sound for the Dual Clutch Transmission.

• To hold the vehicle on a hill use the foot brake or the parking brake. If the vehicle is held by applying the accelerator pedal on a hill the clutch and transmission will be overheated resulting in damage. At this time, a warning message (“Steep grade! Press brake pedal”) will appear on the LCD display and you may feel a vibration.

• If the clutch becomes overheated by excessive use of the clutch to hold on a hill, you may notice a shudder feeling and a blinking display on the instrument cluster. When this occurs, the clutch is disabled until the clutch cools to normal temperatures. If this occurs, pull over to a safe location, shift into P (Park) and apply the foot brake for a few minutes.

• If the LCD warning is active, the foot brake must be applied.

• Ignoring the warnings can lead to damage to the transmission.

• If the display continues to blink, for your safety, we recommend that you contact an authorized Kia dealer.

• Under certain conditions such as repeated launch on steep grades, the clutch in the transmission could overheat. When the clutch is overheated, the safe protection mode engages.
If the safe protection mode engages, the gear position indicator on the cluster blinks with a chime sound.
At this time, a warning message (“Transmission temp. is high! Stop safely”, “Trans Hot! Park with engine on”, “Trans Cooling. Remain parked for 00 min.”, “Trans cooled. Resume driving”) will appear on the LCD display and driving may not be smooth.
If you ignore this warning, the driving condition may become worse. To return the normal driving condition, stop the vehicle and apply the foot brake for a few minutes before driving off.

• Gear shifts may be more noticeable than a conventional automatic transmission. This is a normal characteristic of this type of dual clutch transmission.

• Repetitive kick downs may lead to overheating of the transmission. This will lead to change in the vehicle speed shift pattern, and illuminate some warning message. To return the normal driving condition, refrain from kick down speed changes. When the warning message illuminates, park the vehicle at a safe location.

• During the first 1,500 km (1,000 miles), you may feel that the vehicle may not be smooth when accelerating at low speed. During this break-in period, the shift quality and performance of your new vehicle is continuously optimized.

• Always come to a complete stop before shifting into D (Drive) or R (Reverse).

• Do not put the shift lever in N (Neutral) while driving.
 

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Any transmission that requires a re-education course is best left on the showroom floor!
I'll take that smooth shifting 6 speed automatic or manual for that matter over a "dry clutch" d.c.t.
I've not heard good things about them and this may dissuade me from purchasing a 2017 regardless of how much I like the colors.
Even the G.D.I. motors (cough...cough...catch can...cough) is something I'd prefer to do without!
 

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Any transmission that requires a re-education course is best left on the showroom floor!
I'll take that smooth shifting 6 speed automatic or manual for that matter over a "dry clutch" d.c.t.
I've not heard good things about them and this may dissuade me from purchasing a 2017 regardless of how much I like the colors.
Even the G.D.I. motors (cough...cough...catch can...cough) is something I'd prefer to do without!
I don't mind the G.D.I., but I agree about the transmission. If you want to drive stick, then buy a manual. If not, then buy an automatic.
 

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a technical schematic video on the Kia 7-speed dual clutch transmission

https://youtu.be/V120PfzszL0

understand the dual clutch transmission

https://youtu.be/lFAtc-zOKZs
Nicely-done video, and the schematic helps explain things; but it still seems like a solution in search of a problem to me. Of all the things in life that have annoyed me, the momentary loss of power while shifting gears is one I never thought about until today.

I do agree that it's an improvement over typical (torque converter-type) automatic transmissions. But that's not saying much coming from a guy who hates automatics anyway. The improvement over automatic comes from reduced complexity and presumably better reliability, assuming that it's well-executed, as well as fuel savings. In those regards, it has the edge.

Compared to a typical manual transmission, however, the DCT is an increase in complexity, with a concomitant increase in failure opportunities, and a significant increase in cost when the clutch(es) need to be replaced, in exchange for the rather trivial benefit of not losing power to the wheels during shifts, and the rather dubious one of being able to shift into reverse while the car is still moving forward. Why would anyone want to do that, anyway? It would still be poor technique and would increase wear on the clutch, for no apparent purpose.

So color me skeptical on this one, at least as compared to a conventional manual transmission. Compared to a conventional automatic, however, it's probably an improvement.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
When & where this new transmission was introduced

Kia Motors has announced application of the all-new seven-speed dual-clutch transmission (DCT) to a production model for the first time, the new Kia cee’d GT Line - which made its global debut at the 85th Salon International de l’Automobile in Geneva on 3 March 2015.

Compared to the six-speed DCT currently used in the Europe market Cee'd models, the new transmission is expected to deliver a fuel-economy improvement of seven percent and a five-percent improvement in 0–62*mph acceleration times. Like most new DCTs, the new transmission features dual dry clutches and two input shafts, allowing for seamless torque delivery between shifts as well as gear-jumping to the optimal ratio, should the driver ask for it. If that was to apply to the current Forte K3 Koup or ProCee'd GT and GT Line, with its 204-hp/265*nm 1.6L Inline-4 Gamma II T-GDI Turbo Engine and also 133-ps/300*nm 1.6L CRDi Diesel engine., for example, that would raise its fuel economy from 24 mpg city/36 highway to about 26/39 while bringing its 7.4-second 0–60 run to about seven seconds flat. Kia claims it is 7 percent more efficient than the six-speed, while improving acceleration times by 5 percent.

NVH(Noise, vibration, and harshness) has also been a key focus for the team behind the DCT’s development, with an external damper ensuring a high level of refinement for the new transmission of Kia.

The new transmission is the first of its type from the brand, and has been developed in-house by Kia’s research and development teams at its Namyang, Korea R&D centre. More fuel efficient than Kia’s existing six-speed automatic transmission, the new DCT has been engineered with low fuel consumption and a sporty driving feel when in manual mode, and with comfort and smoothness when left in automatic mode. Throughout its development, Kia’s R&D teams targeted a three to five per cent improvement in acceleration (0 to 100 kph) and five to seven per cent improvement to fuel efficiency, depending on model.

Innovative hollow double-gear input shaft allows quick shifts The DCT is made up of two dry clutches, each fitted with electric motor-driven clutch actuator to improve responsiveness, and an innovative hollow double-gear input shaft. The hollow shaft itself allows the system to quickly engage even gears, while a solid shaft that runs through the middle operates odd gears. This crossed gear shifting enables continuous power delivery and more efficient packaging, two development cornerstones for the engineering teams behind the project.

The hollow shaft mechanism lets the DCT operate sequentially, the car anticipating the next gear that the driver is likely to need next under acceleration or braking, or jump immediately to any of its seven forward gears (and reverse). This is particularly useful under kickdown or heavy braking, allowing the driver to remain in control of the vehicle at all times.

The continuous power delivery of the DCT minimises the loss of torque and forward motion by the powertrain during gear shifts, resulting in more decisive acceleration and a smoother drive. This contributes towards the transmission’s boost to performance in all road conditions in its first application in the cee’d GT Line.

Combined with an increase in power from 128 to 133 ps, the DCT’s seven gears allow the GT Line’s diesel engine to operate at its most efficient speeds at all times. With the engine’s torque increased from 265 to 285 Nm, the new DCT is engineered to effectively manage outputs of up to 300 Nm, achieving a better balance between the engine’s improved, more effortless performance and potential for greater fuel economy.

After the cee’d GT Line, which will go on sale across Europe in Q4 2015, the new seven-speed DCT will be made available on a range of other Kia models.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Nicely-done video, and the schematic helps explain things; but it still seems like a solution in search of a problem to me. Of all the things in life that have annoyed me, the momentary loss of power while shifting gears is one I never thought about until today.

I do agree that it's an improvement over typical (torque converter-type) automatic transmissions. But that's not saying much coming from a guy who hates automatics anyway. The improvement over automatic comes from reduced complexity and presumably better reliability, assuming that it's well-executed, as well as fuel savings. In those regards, it has the edge.

Compared to a typical manual transmission, however, the DCT is an increase in complexity, with a concomitant increase in failure opportunities, and a significant increase in cost when the clutch(es) need to be replaced, in exchange for the rather trivial benefit of not losing power to the wheels during shifts, and the rather dubious one of being able to shift into reverse while the car is still moving forward. Why would anyone want to do that, anyway? It would still be poor technique and would increase wear on the clutch, for no apparent purpose.

So color me skeptical on this one, at least as compared to a conventional manual transmission. Compared to a conventional automatic, however, it's probably an improvement.
from post #1

"always come to a complete stop before putting it in Drive (D) or Reverse (R)"
 

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With the propensity for dealers to bounce problems back at owners, I predict a lot of back & forth if/when failures occur.
If the d.c.t. were worlds more efficient, delivering measurable mileage increases, I could see the need for it.
Change, for changes sake, is not always a step in the right direction.
What's next...dealers hosting classroom training courses on driving a d.c.t. equipped transmission?
 

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I own a new 2020 Soul EX, and I'm coming from owning a 2000 Ford GT Mustang with a 4.6L V8 - 302 lb-ft of torque at 4000 rpm, 260 H.P. at 5000, and manual trans. Nothing like a manual trans. But my experience has now gotten me to avoid driving my EX IVT in the manual mode. Every shift is going to use the clutches I believe, harder than the automatic mode, especially with aggressive up and downshifting.. At first I started to drive and only shifted up when accelerating and let the IVT downshift as it felt necessary, when slowing or stopping. Now I'm kind of reserving manual shifting for hilly locations so I can have more power staying in the same gear. Any thoughts about this?
 

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Your newer gen CVT is completely different than this thread's discussion on the DCT found in gen 2/3 Turbo models. Yours does not really have gears, just simulated gears.
 

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With the propensity for dealers to bounce problems back at owners, I predict a lot of back & forth if/when failures occur.
If the d.c.t. were worlds more efficient, delivering measurable mileage increases, I could see the need for it.
Change, for changes sake, is not always a step in the right direction.
What's next...dealers hosting classroom training courses on driving a d.c.t. equipped transmission?
Kia's choice of where to deploy a DCT is interesting. They are popular in German sports sedans (I test drove a DCT equipped Audi and loved it), but it seems like a strange choice for the more mainstream Soul. What is even more strange is that, supposedly, the 2021 Sorento will have an 8 speed DCT. The new Sorento is on my target list of cars so maybe I'll end up with a DCT. Have to drive one first of course.

Sent from my SM-T720 using Tapatalk
 

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Open this Wikipedia entry on DCT and scroll or search for "Kia." States they are deploying the DCT for 2 mph improvement, for more torque, and an improvement in horsepower. And for like no loss of power between shifts to improve acceleration and smoothness of driving. And they like it in the diesel to keep the engine a peak efficiency all the time.

 

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Open this Wikipedia entry on DCT and scroll or search for "Kia." States they are deploying the DCT for 2 mph improvement, for more torque, and an improvement in horsepower. And for like no loss of power between shifts to improve acceleration and smoothness of driving. And they like it in the diesel to keep the engine a peak efficiency all the time.

Interesting read - thanks.

It is still strange to me that Kia plans an eight-speed DCT for the Sorento. The Sorento is a SUV and a lot of people will tow with them. My daughter tows her pop-up camper with hers, for example. It's not that one can't tow with a clutch-based transmission, but with a true manual, you at least know it's a manual and, hopefully, adjust accordingly. Too many people don't understand what a DCT is (my assumption anyway) and don't drive one properly in low-speed, stop-n-go, situations as discussed on other threads. With a trailer, that situation is even worse.
 
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