[rburkett]

Hi, i have 17 kia soul with 1.6 GDI engine (76K miles) and it suffers from burning oil so i thought id try the Schaeffer moly EP oil treatment and i recently changed the oil, using full synthetic 5W-30 oil (was using 20 before) and i put the entire pint bottle of the moly EP in, and filled up the oil to the full line on the dipstick, which should be about 3.8 qt for this specific engine. I am hoping that this oil treatment could help with the oil burning but wanted to get feedback on my situation. I surely don't want the oil treatment to have an negative impact on the engine.

 

[rhysoul]

You might want to consider a piston soak. It’s good you have switched to 5w30, keep using that as well.

Check out this thread and focus on the “for serious oil loss” and there’s some links on how to do a piston soak, and YouTube has a bunch too.

How to prevent oil and power loss in a Kia Soul GDI engine

How to prevent oil and power loss in a Kia Soul GDI engine compiled and written by westslope with valuable input from GeekOnTheHill, GeoSoul and SportsterDoc Gasoline Direct Injection (GDI) engines can be more efficient than multiport injection (MPI) engines but require more pro-active...

www.kiasoulforums.com

 

[rburkett]

thanks for the reply. hopefully i don't have to go that far with the piston soak. i'll check the level at about 500 miles to see if this 30 oil and Moly EP oil treatment made any noticeable difference. i just was a little concerned that this thick oil treatment would have a negative effect on the GDI engine. But i had read someone posted that they added it to their oil and it did help with oil consumption so i picked up a bottle to at least try.

 

[GeoSoul]

thanks for the reply. hopefully i don't have to go that far with the piston soak. i'll check the level at about 500 miles to see if this 30 oil and Moly EP oil treatment made any noticeable difference. i just was a little concerned that this thick oil treatment would have a negative effect on the GDI engine. But i had read someone posted that they added it to their oil and it did help with oil consumption so i picked up a bottle to at least try.

Let us know how the oil treatment works out. Like rhysoul says the piston soak is worth trying. My 2 cents is the Moly EP is more of a band-aid solution.

You can also see if the amount of oil consumption falls into the warranty category. There may be some remedy available from KIA.

Best of luck.

 

[rburkett]

ok will do

 

[GeekOnTheHill]

My oil loss has gone down to trivial since switching to Castrol Edge High-Mileage a few oil changes ago. I'm guessing that whatever detergents they use cleared up deposits around the rings. I had to add oil after the first oil change with the high-mileage oil, but not since then. If I have time I'll scope the jugs when the weather warms up.

I'm about 2,000 miles into the most-recent oil change and the level is only down by about a quarter inch, which I'm estimating to be about six to eight ounces. Before the switch it would be down about a quart by the end of the OCI -- not horrid, but more than I like -- so at that rate it would be down about 20 - 24 ounces by now, more or less.

I also switched from Techron to the High-Mileage Gumout fuel system cleaner about a year ago, so that may also have something to to with it. I also had a combustion system cleaning done at the dealership before they replaced the CAT under warranty about 20,000 miles ago, but the oil consumption has gone down from what it was after that.

Richard

 

[rburkett]

thanks for the input Richard, on this last oil change im now using quaker state high mileage FS 5w-30, and i do have some SEA FOAM i was thinking about adding to the fuel tank, but haven't got that far yet.

 

[GeoSoul]

thanks for the input Richard, on this last oil change im now using quaker state high mileage FS 5w-30, and i do have some SEA FOAM i was thinking about adding to the fuel tank, but haven't got that far yet.

You might find some good info in this video from Project Farm on the various stop oil leak products.

 

[rburkett]

that's quite an in-depth experiment , bravo to him!
also forgive my ignorance but wouldn't think leaking and burning the same. At least i have never noticed actual leaks under the vehicle, and the exhaust pipe is dirty. But apparently GDI engines are notorious for this behavior, which i know to avoid now.

 

[TosenR]

...I'm about 2,000 miles into the most-recent oil change and the level is only down by about a quarter inch, which I'm estimating to be about six to eight ounces. ...

Prior to changing the my oil this past weekend, the level on the dipstick was ¼" below Full - the lowest I've ever seen it so far (~ weekly oil level checks).

 

[GeekOnTheHill]

Prior to changing the my oil this past weekend, the level on the dipstick was ¼" below Full - the lowest I've every seen it so far (~ weekly oil level checks).

Assuming a normal OCI, that's pretty trivial. How many miles?

Richard

 

[GeoSoul]

that's quite an in-depth experiment , bravo to him!
also forgive my ignorance but wouldn't think leaking and burning the same. At least i have never noticed actual leaks under the vehicle, and the exhaust pipe is dirty. But apparently GDI engines are notorious for this behavior, which i know to avoid now.

Oil may be leaking past the piston rings into the combustion chamber. Sometimes that leads to that dirty carbon exhausting downstream into the catalytic converter and clogging it up. Some folks think of that as burning oil.

 

[GeekOnTheHill]

thanks for the input Richard, on this last oil change im now using quaker state high mileage FS 5w-30, and i do have some SEA FOAM i was thinking about adding to the fuel tank, but haven't got that far yet.

I wouldn't expect immediate results. Most oil detergents do the work of softening the deposits while the car is parked after the car has run long enough to get to normal operating temperature, and then remove them during the first few minutes to half an hour the next time it's started. It really doesn't do very much good while the engine is running after the first half-hour or so. It needs time to soak.

My Soul's oil burning started suddenly enough that I thought something might be mechanically broken, but a quick dip of the borescope revealed that it was just carbon deposits around the rings. I was about ready to do a piston soak (it would be relatively easy on the 1.6) or paying the dealership to do one (which would have been even easier), but I decided to give the high-mileage oil a try first.

Most people associate seal reconditioning with high-mileage oils, but most of them also have enhanced detergent packages on the assumption that older engines have more carbon buildup. I was skeptical, but the first oil change with the high-mileage oil did show some small improvement. The second showed much more improvement, with roughly a pint lost compared to almost a quart before the switch. This one looks like it will lose even less than that.

In the past, I would use an oil with both C and S ratings (generally Rotella or Delvac) to clean engines, especially if I bought a used car with a questionable maintenance history. Gads, did I dislodge a lot of gunk. I had to keep those OCI's short for fear of clogging the filters. Old, poorly-maintained engines can hold ponderous amounts of sludge and gunk.

I'm the original owner of my Soul, however, so I decided not to go that drastic route. Most oils with both C and S ratings barely qualify for the S in terms of ZDDP content (which can shorten the life of the CAT). They're also more prone to foaming in high-revving engines. So it's not something I actually liked doing.

Thing is, I've always strongly preferred using decent oil and not adding anything to it, to using an additive whose compatibility with the oil manufacturer's additives is unknown. Because the additive packages are proprietary, there's no way for me to know exactly what I'm mixing. Given the choice, I'd rather use the Delvac or Rotella than an additive whose contents are a trade secret. But I'd rather use neither if I can avoid it.

So far, the high-mileage, API SP / ILSAC GF-6 Castrol Edge seems to be doing the job gently, but consistently. I think it was the right choice.

One thing maybe I should have done was shorten the OCI's for this experiment. It's entirely possible that the detergents offgas relatively quickly. But the label claims a 10,000 drain interval, so I decided to just stay with my nominal 3,750-mile OCI.

As for the GDI, that really has more to do with the valves than the rings; but an induction system cleaning for the valves will have some incidental benefit for the rings if the soak time is long enough. But so will a fuel system cleaner with a respectable amount of PEA. In fact, I think the combustion chamber and ring cleaning probably is more of a benefit than the fuel system cleaning per se unless the car is showing signs of an actual problem in the fuel-delivery system.

I presently use Gumout Regane High-Mileage Fuel System cleaner around the same time as every oil change unless I use it in between, which I do when I have no choice other than to buy non-TOP TIER gas because of where I happen to be. I carry a bottle of the Gumout around and add it to that tank of gas. That's pretty rare, though, now that Sunoco finally got TOP TIER certified.

Richard

 

[celronart]

I wouldn't expect immediate results. Most oil detergents do the work of softening the deposits while the car is parked after the car has run long enough to get to normal operating temperature, and then remove them during the first few minutes to half an hour the next time it's started. It really doesn't do very much good while the engine is running after the first half-hour or so. It needs time to soak.

My Soul's oil burning started suddenly enough that I thought something might be mechanically broken, but a quick dip of the borescope revealed that it was just carbon deposits around the rings. I was about ready to do a piston soak (it would be relatively easy on the 1.6) or paying the dealership to do one (which would have been even easier), but I decided to give the high-mileage oil a try first.

Most people associate seal reconditioning with high-mileage oils, but most of them also have enhanced detergent packages on the assumption that older engines have more carbon buildup. I was skeptical, but the first oil change with the high-mileage oil did show some small improvement. The second showed much more improvement, with roughly a pint lost compared to almost a quart before the switch. This one looks like it will lose even less than that.

In the past, I would use an oil with both C and S ratings (generally Rotella or Delvac) to clean engines, especially if I bought a used car with a questionable maintenance history. Gads, did I dislodge a lot of gunk. I had to keep those OCI's short for fear of clogging the filters. Old, poorly-maintained engines can hold ponderous amounts of sludge and gunk.

I'm the original owner of my Soul, however, so I decided not to go that drastic route. Most oils with both C and S ratings barely qualify for the S in terms of ZDDP content (which can shorten the life of the CAT). They're also more prone to foaming in high-revving engines. So it's not something I actually liked doing.

Thing is, I've always strongly preferred using decent oil and not adding anything to it, to using an additive whose compatibility with the oil manufacturer's additives is unknown. Because the additive packages are proprietary, there's no way for me to know exactly what I'm mixing. Given the choice, I'd rather use the Delvac or Rotella than an additive whose contents are a trade secret. But I'd rather use neither if I can avoid it.

So far, the high-mileage, API SP / ILSAC GF-6 Castrol Edge seems to be doing the job gently, but consistently. I think it was the right choice.

One thing maybe I should have done was shorten the OCI's for this experiment. It's entirely possible that the detergents offgas relatively quickly. But the label claims a 10,000 drain interval, so I decided to just stay with my nominal 3,750-mile OCI.

As for the GDI, that really has more to do with the valves than the rings; but an induction system cleaning for the valves will have some incidental benefit for the rings if the soak time is long enough. But so will a fuel system cleaner with a respectable amount of PEA. In fact, I think the combustion chamber and ring cleaning probably is more of a benefit than the fuel system cleaning per se unless the car is showing signs of an actual problem in the fuel-delivery system.

I presently use Gumout Regane High-Mileage Fuel System cleaner around the same time as every oil change unless I use it in between, which I do when I have no choice other than to buy non-TOP TIER gas because of where I happen to be. I carry a bottle of the Gumout around and add it to that tank of gas. That's pretty rare, though, now that Sunoco finally got TOP TIER certified.

Richard

I only used Rotella or Delvac 5w40 in my old '99 F150 Van 4.2L Six. My OCI's were about 5500-6000 road miles. Have all but retired the old Ford Van! With just over 100K, it never shows any oil loss! The tailpipe never shows carbon! Also changed the plugs at 90K. They came out clean!

 

[Texas Tin Man in Houston]

I have been using Lucas oil treatment in all my cars since 2007.
My 2014 Soul uses oil and the Lucas is in case I don't check the oil level often enough.
I might try the high mileage oil to se ifoil consumption goes down.

 

[TosenR]

Assuming a normal OCI, that's pretty trivial. How many miles?

This change interval was five months two weeks and 2,060 miles. Miles on the car is 71K.

 

[TosenR]

...
My Soul's oil burning started suddenly enough that I thought something might be mechanically broken, but a quick dip of the borescope revealed that it was just carbon deposits around the rings.

Using the boroscope did you go in through the spark plug holes?

Have you used your boroscope to view the tops of the valves and if so did you remove the valve cover or view another way?

I was about ready to do a piston soak (it would be relatively easy on the 1.6) or paying the dealership to do one (which would have been even easier), but I decided to give the high-mileage oil a try first.
...

For DIY piston soak which brand do you currently like best?

 

[GeekOnTheHill]

This change interval was five months two weeks and 2,060 miles. Miles on the car is 71K.

That's not a big deal, and good on you for being responsible about checking the oil.

Personally, I'd run a can of Techron High Mileage Fuel System Cleaner or Gumout Regane High-Mileage Fuel System Cleaner through the system with the next two tanks of gas, and continue monitoring weekly. Don't expect overnight results. It takes a while.

You may also want to consider an induction system cleaning, either DIY or at a dealership. The valves could probably use it anyway, and it will incidentally soften any deposits around the rings. CRC and Berryman both work nicely, but there are others. Berryman is nice because it's a total-release aerosol, so you don't need a helper to maintain RPM while you're spraying the solvent into the intake.

Dealerships also do induction cleanings. Mine actually did a very good job. I had them do one before they replaced the CAT. They have a whole system worked out for it. But it's doable DIY if you're mechanically inclined.

The next thing I'd try would be a good high-mileage synthetic oil. They have extra detergents to loosen the carbon. I'm happy with the Castrol Edge, but there are others. The top of any of the major makers' lines are all good.

Richard

 

[GeekOnTheHill]

Using the boroscope did you go in through the spark plug holes?

Yes.

Have you used your boroscope to view the tops of the valves and if so did you remove the valve cover or view another way?

Yes, and no. Doing a proper valve lash check and adjustment of needed is on my agenda for the spring. You really can't tell much using the scope, and I certainly wouldn't poke it around under there with the engine running.

For DIY piston soak which brand do you currently like best?

I haven't done one for a while. They were practically routine maintenance on the Saturn S-Series engines (of which I owned six), and GM made a special piston soak for the purpose.

When GM put Saturn out of business, they also stopped making the piston soak solution; so we started using various solvents including Varsol, MEK, Marvel Mystery Oil, and various fuel system cleaners. Everyone seemed to have their favorite.

If I had to do it with no research today, I'd probably use Piston Kleen beause that's what it's made for. Otherwise I'd use any fuel system cleaner with a respectable amount of PEA.

The dealerships have a superb process that they use for piston soaks. They're generally done as a warranty service for excessive oil consumption; but I imagine they'd be happy to take your money to do one, as well. From what @bwdz75 describes, they really do a thorough job of it.

Richard

 

[TosenR]

That's not a big deal, and good on you for being responsible about checking the oil.

Thanks.

Personally, I'd run a can of Techron High Mileage Fuel System Cleaner or Gumout Regane High-Mileage Fuel System Cleaner through the system with the next two tanks of gas, and continue monitoring weekly. Don't expect overnight results. It takes a while.

I'll keep this is mind when spring / summer arrives. Right now with the temperature swings I don't let my gas get below about ¾ of a tank. And I exclusively use TopTier gas.

You may also want to consider an induction system cleaning, either DIY or at a dealership....Dealerships also do induction cleanings. Mine actually did a very good job....

I contacted my dealership last year about maybe getting an induction cleaning service. The service person I spoke to didn't know what it was. With me on the phone she asked someone, that person didn't know either.

So she said she was going to find out and have to call me back, which she did. For me though it didn't give a me warm and fuzzy feeling that they knew what they doing regarding induction cleanings (maybe hardly anyone has ever requested it).

The next thing I'd try would be a good high-mileage synthetic oil. They have extra detergents to loosen the carbon. I'm happy with the Castrol Edge, but there are others. The top of any of the major makers' lines are all good.

I'll keep that in mind. My miles are getting up there.

Since owning the car - bought used with 42K miles - I've run Pennzoil Platinum 5W-20, then Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30, then Kirkland Synthetic 5W-30 (for 2 - 3 oil changes because Pennzoil effectively paused their rebate program), and now back to Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30.