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Discussion Starter #1
Was interested in the discussion of the manual mode “8th” gear and if the car got better mileage using it or not. I did some test drives and here are my results. I’m sure my tests wouldn’t stand up to the rigors of control for variations, but here it is.

Vehicle is 2020 EX with the designer package, low profile tires and rims. Tires exactly at the recommended 33 psi.

Trip: 22 miles, flat (only grades are over passes), 5 miles rural/suburban roads 17 miles highway @ 74 mph, light traffic, no wind, cruise control on @74. Ambient temp 35 degrees.

In Drive Mode (regular normal not sport):
Average 33.2 MPG. RPMs averaged around 2750 - 3000 on highway @ 74 MPH. 3000 going up slight grades overpasses etc.

In Manual 8th Gear:
Average 28.2 MPG. RPMs at 2250 @ 74 MPH.

I have run similar trips to other destinations with similar results. It seems that the engine power efficiency curve is around 2750 - 3000. As I was driving I had the display show the dynamic MPG display. It showed that in manual 8th gear, the MPG would be much greater when the engine was not pulling, but when the speed dropped below the cruise setting (when passing a truck or a slight upgrade) it took much longer for it to reach equilibrium in manual 8th vs Normal Drive mode. So even though the rpms are less, the engine burns less fuel running faster as the variable ratios are optimized for the power output of the engine in Drive not manual mode. Obviously, manual mode is easier on the transmission as it is not changing as much, but milage will suffer. I also wonder whether the engine will run hotter in manual as it is burning more fuel and circulation is less due to lower rpms?

Are others getting similar or dis-similar results?
 

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Thanks Tmiller for your test results. Very interesting hypothesis. Certainly the results are counter-intuitive. Somewhat unsettling.

The concern I would throw out is that 22 miles, especially calculated by the onboard "estimator" system, may not even be close to accurate.

I think a true test would be a fairly long highway drive (eg: 200-300 miles), calculated "at the pump" to get true results.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
The onboard estimator might not be as “estimate” as we think. Ponder this, the system must be able to meter fuel to the injectors very precisely. Wouldn’t the system be able to then know exactly how much fuel is being consumed by the engine? From that point, MPG is simple math.

I do believe that 200 miles might be a better test. But from just watching the dynamic mileage gauge it was easy to see the difference between the two modes.
 

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I think you'll find alot of folks here whose real mileage (calculated at the pump) is different from what the onboard computer says. It's not as advanced as you might hope.

It brings up the question: why would Kia put in a simulated 7 & 8th gear if it did not yield positive fuel savings?

If you're correct, it adds to the IVTs list of "splainin' to do." Right now it's a little bit in the dog house.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Well, I haven’t done any calculations at the pump yet. Looks like that is the next test.
 

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I never bother to calculate mileage anymore, but I got over 30 mpg for the first time traveling to CA last week ( I have a heavy foot). The computer calculated 31.2 mpg and the pump calculation was 31.5 mpg.
Same here engage. Everytime I do a road trip it jumps up to 31-32 mpg real world (even though the exuberant computer will say 34-36):)
 

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The onboard computer display is not an estimate, it's just plain wrong most of the time. Or should I just say, "overly optimistic".
The only accurate way to get your MPG is to take the miles you drive between fill-ups, and divide that by the number of gallons of gas you put in the tank. (that should be so obvious to every driver, I don't know why I even go into it here)
I enter all my numbers into an Excel Spreadsheet here on my PC and it calculates the MPG as well as the cost per mile. I have all the numbers, going back to the day I bought my car. I still have the numbers for my last Soul, going back seven years.

:cool:
PS: Now, I have a question.....what causes the trip meter to reset every day?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Ok, so the car’s computer is inaccurate. Has anyone done some comparisons between Highway mileage using the manual 8th gear and Drive?
 

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I will never get the preoccupation with checking gas milage, I buy a car to drive and enjoy not worry about the amount of gas it consumes, if I did I wouldn't own a car at all.

Pat.
 

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I am wondering what the mpg would be without CC. I am guessing it would be better if you work gas and brake gently, especially if there are traffic lights and slowing down.
 

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I am wondering what the mpg would be without CC. I am guessing it would be better if you work gas and brake gently, especially if there are traffic lights and slowing down.
Good question dev. This is from they guys at CarTalk:

RAY: Using cruise control on the highway does save fuel, for exactly the reason you say: It keeps you moving at a very steady speed. Continuing to move at a steady speed uses less fuel than accelerating. TOM: When you drive without cruise control, you tend to slow down, speed up, slow down, speed up, etc
 

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Good question dev. This is from they guys at CarTalk:

RAY: Using cruise control on the highway does save fuel, for exactly the reason you say: It keeps you moving at a very steady speed. Continuing to move at a steady speed uses less fuel than accelerating. TOM: When you drive without cruise control, you tend to slow down, speed up, slow down, speed up, etc
Seems to me RAY is a poor driver.
 

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Ok, so the car’s computer is inaccurate. Has anyone done some comparisons between Highway mileage using the manual 8th gear and Drive?
I haven't heard of anyone doing this yet. I think we're counting on you to run the test:)

I heard Topher mention 8th would yield better mileage, but it was off the cuff.

If only Kia would sponsor you, with a food, gas & lodging budget, to conduct this experiment, then I'd be happy for you.
 

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I can actually see and interpret patterns & flow. NAH!, NAH!, CC.
 

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Good question dev. This is from they guys at CarTalk:

RAY: Using cruise control on the highway does save fuel, for exactly the reason you say: It keeps you moving at a very steady speed. Continuing to move at a steady speed uses less fuel than accelerating. TOM: When you drive without cruise control, you tend to slow down, speed up, slow down, speed up, etc
How good is 2020 Soul LX CC? Does it scramble to get to set speed after starting from a light? Does it try avoiding braking to halt as much as possible?

I am talking of a semi highway driving. In my place highway have many traffic light(its high time they make it a freeway). I would love to use CC and only steer. But, in commute time it highway speed for 5min then a 20min stop and go, then 5min highway speed then another 10min stop and go and so on. I do hypermiling by being gentle on pedals. In this case do you think CC is better?
 

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How good is 2020 Soul LX CC? Does it scramble to get to set speed after starting from a light? Does it try avoiding braking to halt as much as possible?

I am talking of a semi highway driving. In my place highway have many traffic light(its high time they make it a freeway). I would love to use CC and only steer. But, in commute time it highway speed for 5min then a 20min stop and go, then 5min highway speed then another 10min stop and go and so on. I do hypermiling by being gentle on pedals. In this case do you think CC is better?
It's pretty basic dev. Definitely no braking. I think you would like a good adaptive cruise control with full stop capability. Those are pretty nice & can make rush hour to open road driving less stressful (or so I'm told). Features of a self driving car.

Right now carmakers are holding that technology hostage to force people to buy the higher, most expensive trims.

Like on the 2020 Soul, you have to buy the top of the line GT Turbo to get "adaptive" added to cruise control.

To remind everyone who didn't buy that trim, they leave a blank button on the steering wheel controller to look at every time you drive the car. Tacky if you ask me.
 

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I don't understand all the confusion about the KIA Souls 8th gear. I also don't understand KIA's reluctance to tout it as a selling feature. My salesman never mentioned it! I think that did me a great disservice.
On the IVT, the manually accessed 8th gear is what for decades was called "Over Drive".
Way back when, I've ridden in and even driven cars that had an "Over Drive" gear, that had to be activated by pushing a button, pulling a lever, etc....some form of manual activation from the driver.
So I see the 8th gear on the IVT to be nothing more than an "Over Drive" gear, which runs the engine at less RPM's to maintain an already achieved road speed, and save gas in the process.

At least on my Soul LX, there is NO instrumentation to tell me, moment by moment, what my fuel consumption (MPG) actually is. Some time back, I bought a device (Scan Guage II) that connects to the car and shows me the MPG as well as MPH, in real time.
133148

This picture of the Scan Guage II, is for reference purposes. It was taken on a Kia Soul, but I'm just not sure which one...
my 2013 or my 2020. I suspect that it may have been my 2013...she got some really good MPG.

On a high speed, late night, road trip, I recently did some experimenting with the CC and with the IVT in 8th gear.
At 80 mph, in "D" and using CC, I was only getting MPG in the mid to high 20's. By dropping my speed to 75 mph, my MPG jumped to the low 30's.
Then I shifted into 8th gear (Over Drive) while keeping the CC set to 75 mph. The MPG, on my Scan Gauge II, which I had been monitoring, jumped into the high 30's to low 40's, depending on the rise and fall of the highway.

Admittedly, I was still not driving for max MPG, but it was near mid-night and I really wanted to get home ASAP.
Traffic on I-75 was minimal and I was having no problem maintaining 75 mph.

The highest MPG can be attained by keeping the speed below 70 mph. That can vary some, depending on a lot of things on the particular car being driven. Those things can include, tire pressure, accessories being used, engine oil, etc.

With all that said, I hope I've answered some questions for someone, possibly the new Soul owners.

Happy Trails, Mates,
FLHamster :cool:
 

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It's pretty basic dev. Definitely no braking. I think you would like a good adaptive cruise control with full stop capability. Those are pretty nice & can make rush hour to open road driving less stressful (or so I'm told). Features of a self driving car.

Right now carmakers are holding that technology hostage to force people to buy the higher, most expensive trims.

Like on the 2020 Soul, you have to buy the top of the line GT Turbo to get "adaptive" added to cruise control.

To remind everyone who didn't buy that trim, they leave a blank button on the steering wheel controller to look at every time you drive the car. Tacky if you ask me.
Yes it sucks. honda gives ACC for civic ~20K$. Soul should have it from S trim and up.
 
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