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"recommends... changed every 3,750 miles or 6 months"

I think this will drive owners to quicky lubes & dino oil.
It may drive me to Walmart for the dead-of-winter one. At least where I live, they're actually better than the quick oil-change specialty shops. They'll also use whatever oil you want (as long as you buy it there) and an OEM filter (if you have a receipt from the dealership, presumably to prevent installing counterfeits). They won't discount the price any for the filter, though, and they won't use a third-party filter provided by the customer. It either has to be purchased there or be OEM.

I've used them a few times when it was just too blasted cold to do oil changes outside. They have a pretty good system set up. One guy is on top, and another in the pit. They shout at each other and run through a checklist. They also pull up the oil capacity, torque, etc. on a computer and have never overfilled any car I've owned.

They did make one mistake once on one of my Saturns when they didn't use the oil and filter I handed them. They re-did it and comped me for the whole job -- even including the oil that was left in the five-quart jug after the fill. So I really can't complain.

Richard
 

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It may drive me to Walmart for the dead-of-winter one. At least where I live, they're actually better than the quick oil-change specialty shops. They'll also use whatever oil you want (as long as you buy it there) and an OEM filter (if you have a receipt from the dealership, presumably to prevent installing counterfeits). They won't discount the price any for the filter, though, and they won't use a third-party filter provided by the customer. It either has to be purchased there or be OEM.

I've used them a few times when it was just too blasted cold to do oil changes outside. They have a pretty good system set up. One guy is on top, and another in the pit. They shout at each other and run through a checklist. They also pull up the oil capacity, torque, etc. on a computer and have never overfilled any car I've owned.

They did make one mistake once on one of my Saturns when they didn't use the oil and filter I handed them. They re-did it and comped me for the whole job -- even including the oil that was left in the five-quart jug after the fill. So I really can't complain.

Richard
Richard do you know what the logic is behind the 6 month part of the oil change period if you have, say only 1,500 miles on it? Alot of folks drive just 3,000 miles in 12 months but now that would require 2 oil changes instead of annually.

Would that oil be compromised at 6 months?
 

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Richard do you know what the logic is behind the 6 month part of the oil change period if you have, say only 1,500 miles on it? Alot of folks drive just 3,000 miles in 12 months but now that would require 2 oil changes instead of annually.

Would that oil be compromised at 6 months?
It could be compromised, more so if it's conventional than synthetic; but it would be in terms of it being less effective, not completely useless. Some of the reasons have to do with chemical reactions in the oil itself; and others have to do with the environmental effects upon the engine that also affect the oil.

Oil is a lipid and is subject to oxidation, which increases viscosity and reduces viscosity index. Some common additives are also volatile by nature and will eventually offgas, in addition to being subject to chemical breakdown due to interaction with oxygen and other environmental factors, the base oil, and each other. This type of degradation happens regardless of mileage.

There are also effects upon the engine to consider. Ambient temperature changes cause condensation, which will accelerate corrosion, which will contaminate the oil when the engine is started (in addition to the other damage it does). When a car is driven regularly, this is less of a problem because the operating temperature is high enough to boil off the water.

Frequent operation also will maintain a protective oil coating on vulnerable parts even as the polymers and other additives that help the oil coat metal parts begin to break down. The effectiveness of the partially-degraded oil at coating the parts may be sufficient for a car that's operated frequently because the parts are "re-coated" more often. But in a car that's infrequently used, the same oil may not offer sufficient protection.

In a nutshell, yes, oil could be compromised after six months. It probably wouldn't be compromised enough to endanger the engine (especially if it's a good-quality synthetic oil); but it wouldn't provide the very best lubrication, protection, cooling, cleansing, or corrosion protection, either.

Richard
 

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It could be compromised, more so if it's conventional than synthetic; but it would be in terms of it being less effective, not completely useless. Some of the reasons have to do with chemical reactions in the oil itself; and others have to do with the environmental affects upon the engine that also affect the oil.

Oil is a lipid and is subject to oxidation, which increases viscosity and reduces viscosity index. Some common additives are also volatile by nature and will eventually offgas, in addition to being subject to chemical breakdown due to interaction with oxygen and other environmental factors, the base oil, and each other. This type of degradation happens regardless of mileage.

There are also effects upon the engine to consider. Ambient temperature changes cause condensation, which will accelerate corrosion, which will contaminate the oil when the engine is started (in addition to the other damage it does). When a car is driven regularly, this is less of a problem because the operating temperature is high enough to boil off the water.

Frequent operation also will maintain a protective oil coating on vulnerable parts even as the polymers and other additives that help the oil coat metal parts begin to break down. The effectiveness of the partially-degraded oil at coating the parts may be sufficient for a car that's operated frequently because the parts are "re-coated" more often. But on a car that's infrequently used, the same oil may not offer sufficient protection.

In a nutshell, yes, oil could be compromised after six months. It probably wouldn't be compromised enough to endanger the engine (especially if it's a good-quality synthetic oil); but it wouldn't provide the very best lubrication, protection, cooling, cleansing, or corrosion protection, either.

Richard
Thanks Richard. That makes perfect sense. My dealer has had me on an annual OCI @ 3,000 miles with dino.

This year I switched to full SN+ Synthetic & doing my own. I guess I should think about 6 month oil changes.

Really appreciate you sharing your knowledge Richard.
 
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I had considered going to Mobil 1 EP, because I was pushing the max time interval with my 3.000 mile annual OCIs.
I'll just stick with the Mobil 1 I've been using at 6 months, 1,500 miles.
Have I been out of compliance with the warranty my first 3 years of ownership, because I don't consider my driving severe?
 

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Thanks Richard. That makes perfect sense. My dealer has had me on an annual OCI @ 3,000 miles with dino.

This year I switched to full SN Synthetic & doing my own. I guess I should think about 6 month oil changes.

Really appreciate you sharing your knowledge Richard.
Thank you. I've always found oil interesting enough to be studied for its own sake. It's an unusual obsession that results in more blank stares than expressions of appreciation.

One thing that surprised me when I bought my 2016 was that KIA recommended API SM or above, despite SM having been obsoleted by SN in 2010. (SN Plus, which introduced LSPI protection, didn't come out until around 2017.) The main differences between SM and SN had to do with deposit and sludge formation, so one would think KIA would have jumped on that requirement for a GDI engine.

In a practical sense, it really didn't matter because SM oils disappeared from the market shortly SN was introduced.

KIA also specified ILSAC GF-4 or above for my 2016, even though that specification had already been obsoleted by GF-5 in 2011 or thereabouts. So they used obsolete specs for both API and ILSAC. I thought it was very peculiar.

In Europe, however, they specified ACEA A5, a current and fairly stringent standard (although I don't think it addresses LSPI protection).

The best combination of oil specs for a GEN 2 owner in North America at this particular moment in time would be API SN Plus, ACEA A5, and ILSAC GF-6. GF-6 in particular incorporates SN Plus but has more stringent standards regarding deposit formation and a few other factors. It's also a superior yardstick to ACEA because of the LSPI protection that's a part of API SN Plus (and incorporated into GF-6), but was not a part of ACEA A5 the last time I checked. There was some talk about an in-grade revision rather than a new standard, but I don't think it ever happened.

On a more practical level, any oil marketed in North America that meets API SN Plus and ACEA A5 probably meets ILSAC GF-6, as well, even if it's not labeled that way. Every additional license costs the manufacturers money, and only gearheads care about ILSAC in North America. But some European automakers use the ACEA standard even on cars sold in North America; so it pays for the oil manufacturers to obtain ACEA certification in addition to API certification for high-end oils sold in the North American market.

In a nutshell, it would be hard to formulate an oil that meets SN Plus and ACEA A5 without also meeting ILSAC GF-6, even if they don't obtain the ILSAC license; so meeting those two standards is one of my personal minimums for oil for a GDI engine.

Richard
 

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I had considered going to Mobil 1 EP, because I was pushing the max time interval with my 3.000 mile annual OCIs.
I'll just stick with the Mobil 1 I've been using at 6 months, 1,500 miles.
Have I been out of compliance with the warranty my first 3 years of ownership, because I don't consider my driving severe?
KIA probably would say so, but it would be irrelevant unless the problem were lubrication-related. It would be like trying to avoid warranty service on the transaxle because the owner installed a dashcam.

Richard
 

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I've received no letter either but, reading the letter here, it appears that FL doesn't qualify for extreme driving conditions. <shrug>
 

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I've gotten no letter I guess the Kia scare tactic doesn't apply to everyone.
It should be "in the mail." The letter covers 2014-2021 Souls (and pretty much every other Kia model as well).
 
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I haven't read all the posts but what they are trying to do is cover their ass on oil burning in these GDI engines. My 2013, which always used synthetic and was changed at 6-7k, is burning oil at 160k miles. Roughly a quart every 1-2k miles. I am almost positive it is because of carbon deposits on the valve seats, and I could solve it if I pulled the head and had it cleaned. My car has 95% long drive highway miles, which should keep deposits down by operating at optimal high temperature longer. I guarantee Kia is seeing these GDIs with 40-80k miles that are driven 3 miles at a time with heavy oil burning and failures from people who never check because most modern cars are stingy with oil use between changes.

So anyway, I got two of the letters (I have 2 first gens) and one is totally out of warranty, the other has about 20k miles left on the engine warranty. I remember when Kia came out with the "most driving is normal, not severe" TSB 7 or 8 years ago. They're trying to backpedal to cover themselves on these GDI problems.
 

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I haven't read all the posts but what they are trying to do is cover their ass on oil burning in these GDI engines. My 2013, which always used synthetic and was changed at 6-7k, is burning oil at 160k miles. Roughly a quart every 1-2k miles. I am almost positive it is because of carbon deposits on the valve seats, and I could solve it if I pulled the head and had it cleaned. My car has 95% long drive highway miles, which should keep deposits down by operating at optimal high temperature longer. I guarantee Kia is seeing these GDIs with 40-80k miles that are driven 3 miles at a time with heavy oil burning and failures from people who never check because most modern cars are stingy with oil use between changes.

So anyway, I got two of the letters (I have 2 first gens) and one is totally out of warranty, the other has about 20k miles left on the engine warranty. I remember when Kia came out with the "most driving is normal, not severe" TSB 7 or 8 years ago. They're trying to backpedal to cover themselves on these GDI problems.
I think you're right jd. FWIW, congrats on 160,000 miles on your Soul. Out of curiosity what brand & weight of synthetic do you run in that engine?

Thanks!
 
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I haven't read all the posts but what they are trying to do is cover their ass on oil burning in these GDI engines. My 2013, which always used synthetic and was changed at 6-7k, is burning oil at 160k miles. Roughly a quart every 1-2k miles. I am almost positive it is because of carbon deposits on the valve seats, and I could solve it if I pulled the head and had it cleaned. My car has 95% long drive highway miles, which should keep deposits down by operating at optimal high temperature longer. I guarantee Kia is seeing these GDIs with 40-80k miles that are driven 3 miles at a time with heavy oil burning and failures from people who never check because most modern cars are stingy with oil use between changes.

So anyway, I got two of the letters (I have 2 first gens) and one is totally out of warranty, the other has about 20k miles left on the engine warranty. I remember when Kia came out with the "most driving is normal, not severe" TSB 7 or 8 years ago. They're trying to backpedal to cover themselves on these GDI problems.
Don't underestimate the power of PEA intake valve cleaners. You may have to do it several times, but they do make a difference. I'm confident enough in the three-pronged approach of GDI-specific oil, intake cleaning, and Techron that I wrote a page about it this morning between my second and third cups of coffee.


Richard
 

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I think you're right jd. FWIW, congrats on 160,000 miles on your Soul. Out of curiosity what brand & weight of synthetic do you run in that engine?

Thanks!
Before the oil burning, Mobil 1 full regular synthetic 5-20. Now that I'm going through oil more times than not it's Wally world brand dino. On the plus side, I don't have to pay as much attention to oil changes :ROFLMAO:
 

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Don't underestimate the power of PEA intake valve cleaners. You may have to do it several times, but they do make a difference. I'm confident enough in the three-pronged approach of GDI-specific oil, intake cleaning, and Techron that I wrote a page about it this morning between my second and third cups of coffee.


Richard
I'm probably going to give it a shot after I retire, when I won't care if a chunk of carbon falls in a cylinder and scores the walls. For now I'm just going to keep adding oil and change the filter twice a year. If all goes well I will be retiring next year and so I only really need to get another 20k out of this engine if it decides to crater.

I've seen some good video of the PEA working but what I have seen is that you want to do it a cylinder at a time rather than the intake method, let it soak overnight and shop vac the deposits out. I believe mine are bad enough that I can't get a seal tight enough to keep the cylinders clear if I do it like that.
 

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Before the oil burning, Mobil 1 full regular synthetic 5-20. Now that I'm going through oil more times than not it's Wally world brand dino. On the plus side, I don't have to pay as much attention to oil changes :ROFLMAO:
Thanks JD! Would you ever consider bumping it up to 5w - 30? I think some folks have had good results with that. I was looking at a 5w - 30 Amazon SN+ for higher mileage engines. It reminded me of Geritol for Cars!
 

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Thanks JD! Would you ever consider bumping it up to 5w - 30? I think some folks have had good results with that. I was looking at a 5w - 30 Amazon SN+ for higher mileage engines. It reminded me of Geritol for Cars!
I tried that thinking the higher viscosity would make a difference but all it did was kill a couple MPG off my fuel economy and still burned the same oil. It is amazing to me how sensitive these engines are to oil thickness and drag; I can tell a difference on 30w and I can tell a difference with the AC running. My Miata is the same way.
 

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I'm probably going to give it a shot after I retire, when I won't care if a chunk of carbon falls in a cylinder and scores the walls. For now I'm just going to keep adding oil and change the filter twice a year. If all goes well I will be retiring next year and so I only really need to get another 20k out of this engine if it decides to crater.

I've seen some good video of the PEA working but what I have seen is that you want to do it a cylinder at a time rather than the intake method, let it soak overnight and shop vac the deposits out. I believe mine are bad enough that I can't get a seal tight enough to keep the cylinders clear if I do it like that.

JD, have you seen this video yet? I post it whenever people encounter oil consumption problems. Extra tight tolerances seem to be the culprit and it's not unique to Kia or Souls.

 
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