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Kia dealerships allowed to use any kind of oil filter they want?

15K views 42 replies 17 participants last post by  jdmartin 
#1 ·
I changed the oil on both Souls tonight. I did the oil change on the 2013 last time, but I had the Kia dealer do the oil change on the 2012. They didn't put the oil dipstick back in all the way, and by the time I caught it there was a nice greasy, oily mess under the hood. So I decided for the next oil change - tonight - I would do both of them myself, at the same time. Did both in just under an hour from the time I went downstairs until the time I came upstairs. Easy peasy. But I digress.

When I took the oil filter off the 2013, it was a Kia (Hyundai) filter, big blue, as I expected, because that's what I've been using (some of you might remember my expensive oil filter purchase thread from last year). When I went to take the oil filter off the 2012, I was surprised to see that it was not blue, and had some kind of grip section on the top. I pulled it off of there and it was a Fram Tough Guard oil filter.

What the hell? Was my first thought. I didn't think dealers were allowed to use brands other than Kia. My second thought was "why in the hell would they be using Fram filters"?

Coupled with the gorilla job they did on the plug - I busted my knuckle getting it loose - and on the oil filter - the rubber seal actually came off the filter, the first time I've actually ever had one stuck to the mounting surface despite having done oil changes of over 1 million miles - that oil change was a total hack job.

Thoughts? I was just back at that dealer the other day getting the mileage read for the rebate, and the service manager mentioned that I haven't been back for service in a while. I told him what happened with the oil all over the engine bay, and he looked up the service ticket and said "Oh, that tech's not here any more" and offered to clean up the engine bay if I brought it back for service. I told him I'd see, but now having seen the Fram filter, I can't imagine going back there for any service again, ever.
 
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#3 ·
I would have told the service manager straight up..."If I wanted a ****ty filter and sloppy work, I would have brought it to xyz lube!"
Just another reason why we/I do what we/I can ourselves.
To avoid go-rilla torque tactics and sloppy work.
Yeah...the tech may no longer be there but did he go out and by a fram filter out of his pocket especially for you?
I think not!
 
#4 ·
jdmartin,

Although I'm not against using FRAM filters, the rest of this is unfortunate. I recently changed my oil and filter and was slightly concerned about what I'd find because my dealer did the previous one for free. I expected to see a stripped drainplug and gorilla-d filter, but all was fine. Phew.

Checking the filter housing O-ring is a good lesson for all; I've only seen it 3 times, but reminding everyone to check that the old O-ring actually came off with your old oil filter is CRITICAL. Having two O-rings accidentally installed will create a mess with oil spewing out of your engine very quickly. My friend's wife drove off once with two filter O-rings and left an oily, smokey trail as if she was skywriting or smokescreening ala James Bond.

Greg
 
#5 ·
It's almost comical, that we're forced to revisit basic mechanical concepts that are much older than most of us.

Cleaning the oil filter mounting surface on the engine block, is the most basic thing I can think of.
Then properly lubricating the seal on the filter, so it doesn't drag against the block and wad up or tear when you install the filter to the proper torque specification. I use DC4, Dow Corning Silicone grease, to lubricate all seals and O-Rings on my car, including the seal on the gas cap.
2793695 - DOW CORNING - Silicone, Compound, DC4, Grease, Tube, 100g | Newark element14


I can think of only one logical reason why any Kia dealership would put a Fram filter on a Kia Soul:

The car is in the shop for an oil change, the mechanic removes the old filter and drains the oil and then goes to the parts dept. for a new Kia oil filter and is told they are out of them. The car is still on the lift, with no oil or filter in it. So the parts man sends a runner out to the local Auto Parts store to pick up a filter that will fit the Kia Soul. He comes back with a Fram filter which is then put on the car. Then they fill the crankcase with a bulk oil that they use on all their cars. My own dealer uses a Shell Blend, or so they say. :pirate:

My own first three oil changes were done by my dealer, for FREE, or so they say. On the last oil change, there was a big drop of oil on the bottom of the filter when I got home. There was also oil on a nearby frame. No, it wasn't leaking, but that just told me that the mechanic wasn't very neat.



With so many horror stories about BAD oil changes, it's no wonder that so many guys want to do their own oil changes.

I consider it a pleasure, to still be able to do my own oil changes, and use an oil and filter that I know and trust.



This was my most expensive oil change, because I added a Magnetic Oil Drain Plug to the mix.

I just did oil change #18, and still no leaks.

Cheers Mates, and Happy Motoring,
FL Hamster :cool:
 
#6 · (Edited)
No excuse for not using a KIA oil filter on any KIA that is service at the dealership. If they are not going to use OEM parts I want to know up front and then I will decide.
On my 2012 you could easily see the oil filter, but with my 2016 and the lower engine cover shroud you can no longer see it easily.

I can see a KIA dealership having some other filters in stock as they also get used vehicles in stock and perhaps they service other makes for other people who don't own a KIA. Some people may buy a used vehicle off them and get it serviced by them on a regular basis.

I get my oil changed at my local dealership and have done for over 9 years, no problems so far.
 
#15 ·
On a Suzuki car I had some years ago, I went to the dealer for my first (FREE) oil change, but....the filter leaked and when I checked it I found that it was not a genuine Suzuki filter. It was actually made by Champ Filters. Such is life!
I actually found this, when I went to do my own Oil Change.


I bagged the old filter and took it back to the dealer, with my statement of consternation, disappointment and dissatisfaction.

I'm glad to be rid of that car....changing the oil filter was a nightmare!

On the other side of the coin, I've never had a car where the oil filter was/is so easy to change as the 2013 Kia Soul. Just look under the car and there it is, hanging down there as plain as a red nose on a wino.

This is for those who have never seen their oil filter before, not for the DIY guys.



Cheers Mates!
FL Hamster :cool:
 
#8 ·
Aren't they putting you at risk of losing valuable KIA warranty coverage as well?

Their own TSB says use of non KIA or commensurate filters can lead to non coverage. It seems ridiculous for them to stick that FRAM filter in.

In reality they are only as good as their weakest link. While they tried to point the finger at the mechanic who "isnt there anymore," the real weakest link is Management that has inadequate quality control procedures (like none). A second set of eyes should look over the work before a customer gets it.
 
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#11 ·
I never go to the dealership for oil changes. One time is all it took, oil slopped on the engine, fingerprints on the fender and steering wheel...never again!
 
#13 · (Edited)
I don't mind doing my own oil changes. I've done them all my life, and I'd guess with over a million miles drove in my life I've done a few hundred of them. I can't even remember why I let them change the oil on the 2012; I think it was because they sent me one of them $20 offers in the mail. Guess I got my $20 worth :greedy_dollars: Mostly I was just shocked to find a non-Kia filter on there. I guess the fact that they may do filter changes for other makes is a viable reason that they might have other brands of filters there, but in my mind if I'm taking my car back to the dealer that sells those cars, I get OEM maintenance parts. I suppose I should have asked, and if I ever go out and get it done again I will ask from now on for sure.

Edit: I just did the math on a million miles. If I averaged 60 MPH during all that time (not likely), that's almost 2 full years behind the wheel. Holy crap!
 
#26 ·
OH YES! The Genuine Suzuki Oil Filter was Black, not blue. That was my first clue, that the dealer had put an after-market filter on my car. They also used a bulk oil, and I never was able to find out what brand that was.

Of course, that's all ancient history now, since Suzuki filed bankruptcy in the US and closed all their dealerships. That's the main reason I'm no longer driving a Suzuki.
I traded off my SX4, AWD, for my Kia Soul and I definitely got the better part of that deal. :)

Cheers Mates,
:cool:
 
#17 · (Edited)
The "leaking" folks may see is usually the oil from topping off the filter before installation dripping down the sides.
When I top off, I wipe the ridge where the oil collects for a drip fee installation.
This way, if i do see oil, I know it will be a leak and not residual oil from the install.
Fastidious takes time and time is $$$, especially to a dealership!
Your oil change takes rack time and is not a huge money maker where/when a brake job or something larger could be on that rack.
Get em in...get em out, is their then and there mentality and sterilizing the patient is not on their radar!
I have doubts that dealerships even pre-fill the filter before installation though I have never been there to know fer-sure.
 
#18 ·
The "leaking" folks may see is usually the oil from topping off the filter before installation dripping down the sides.
When I top off, I wipe the ridge where the oil collects for a drip fee installation.
This way, if i do see oil, I know it will be a leak and not residual oil from the install.
Fastidious takes time and time is $$$, especially to a dealership!
Your oil change takes rack time and is not a huge money maker where/when a brake job or something larger could be on that rack.
Get em in...get em out is there mentality and sterilizing the patient is not on their radar!
I have doubts that dealerships even pre-fill the filter before installation though I have never been there to know fer-sure.
It's amazing how you can use "there" wrong and "their" correctly in the same sentence. :)
 
#23 ·
I know, right? That robot used the right oil filter :)
 
#28 ·
GSXR? I had to look that one up on Wikipedia. Nice bike!

The Suzuki bankruptcy only affected the Automotive part of Suzuki, not the Motorcycle and sport group.
I've had Harleys, Hondas, BMW's and one Kawasaki. But I never did own a Suzuki Motorcycle.

But I did have a Suzuki Grand Vitara, Forenza and SX4. But with NO factory service or part availability,
driving the SX4 was just too chancy for me. One test drive in my 2013 Kia Soul was all it took to sell me.
The Kia Soul is every bit as good a car as the SX4 was, and a whole lot easier and cheaper to maintain. And, she goes everywhere that the SX4 would go, on road, off road, or even where there is NO road at all.

Cheers Mates

FLHamster :cool:
 
#29 ·
Hate to say it, but if the dealership DID use a Fram 'Toughguard' filter (it is silver in colour), they used a good-quality filter.

I know everyone raves about using OEM Kia filters, but the Toughguard is Fram's semi-synthetic, 10k-mile rated filter...not a bad piece.
 
#31 ·
Saying that, you're exhibiting your lack of knowledge about the Kia filter. It's NOT your average oil filter.
The Kia filter has a special valve in it, to assure that the VVT gets the proper oil pressure...the Fram filter has no such valve.
The Kia Filter also has more filtering material than the non-OEM filters.
You couldn't run fast enough or beat me hard enough to force me to put a Fram filter on my Soul.



Kia even put out a Service Bulletin stressing the need to use ONLY the Kia filter on the Kia engines.

If you blow your engine with a Fram filter on it, Kia has every legal right to void your warranty and charge you for a new engine.

Rots O Ruck!

:cool:
 
#30 ·
Ex-girlfriend bought a new Suzuki X-90 when they first came out. She always let me drive it. It was a nice little car. Great gas mileage. No clue why it failed. Voted one of the worst cars for the last twenty years by some magazine.

Remember she got one of the first ones available in her area. Driving it around everyone looked and stared at us wondering what toy we were driving. It was a very small car but somehow my 6'6" frame got in and out just fine.

Kind of like when I got my Kia Soul. Was one of the first ones in Columbus to drive it around. Everyone looked at me. Now they don't :(
 
#34 · (Edited)
I've discussed Kia Soul maintenance, and what Oil Filter to use, with my Kia Service manager, Parts manager, Service Writer, and even a few tech's, and the overwhelming agreement is that the Kia Soul should have ONLY the Kia Oil Filter installed on it.
And that's the ONLY oil filter you will find at my Dealership.

While at my dealership yesterday, I picked up another Genuine Kia Filter, for my next (60k) oil change. $6.60 for the filter, $.40 tax = $7.00 total charge. And, every filter comes with a new crush washer for the drain plug, for FREE. I understand that some dealers may charge $1 for that.






Happy Trails, Mates!

FL Hamster :cool:
 
#36 · (Edited)
On the other hand, it's unlikely that Kia actually makes their filters, they almost certainly get them OEM'd from a company that makes oil filters. Same as the Hyundai SPIII AT fluid, where they'd void your warranty if you used anything else. But that was made by Valvoline, who said "our contract prevents us from selling SPIII AT fluid, but this other fluid we make is just as good." They were in a position to know.

I see nothing in the owner's manual requiring Kia filters (I do have a Gen2, maybe Gen1 is different?). They do talk about Top Tier gasoline, and give specs for minimum rating of oil.

Could crappy filters damage your engine? Sure. Are all (or even most) aftermarket filters crappy? I strongly doubt it. Would Kia void your warranty? I dunno, if they were looking for an excuse they might. However, I do believe that in the US, they'd have to be able to prove that the replacement filter had really caused damage, and I think that would be pretty difficult, if you're not using one of those stupid toilet tissue oil filters.

Warranty? I don't got no steenkin' warranty.
 
#37 · (Edited)
First I must ask why "I don't got no steenkin' warranty" ???

The power train warranty is 100,000 miles or ten years, whichever comes first, and that's for everyone,
even people who live in Minnesota, or anyplace in the USA.

That warranty takes into account any damage to the engine. However if that damage can be traced back to an Aftermarket oil filter, the warranty is VOID.

I had an in depth discussion on this very topic, with my Kia Dealership's Parts Manager, just a few days ago.
He told me they stock NOTHING but Genuine Kia Parts, including all filters.
And he stated that they would only install a NON OEM filter if the customer absolutely insisted on it.
But the customer would have to agree, that if their NON OEM filter caused damage to the engine, they would be charged for the repair, or replacement of the engine.
Then I asked him if that ever happened and he said a completely unqualified "NO!".

My dealership, Citrus KIA, Crystal River, FL., is rated in the top 20 Kia Dealerships in the entire USA. One way to protect that good rating, is to use only Genuine Kia parts.

Happy Trails, Mates!

:cool:

PS: Every auto maker in the world buys their filers, fluids and most of the electrical system from outside vendors. But....all those things are manufactured to the exacting specifications of the Auto Maker.
 
#39 ·
By the way I've used non-OEM oil filters in my car since my first oil change. After 125k miles, the engine is still going strong. I've never had to use the warranty on the car. Most of the time the oil filter was whatever I looked at first on the shelf. The current one on there is a royal purple brand one which I'll never buy again because mine was defective. Had to fix it before installing.
 
#40 ·
My dealership, Citrus KIA, Crystal River, FL., is rated in the top 20 Kia Dealerships in the entire USA. One way to protect that good rating, is to use only Genuine Kia parts.

Question: Where did you get the information regarding your dealer? I'd like to get the same info for my dealer.

Thanks!
 
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