[simplekiaowner]

2016 soul 1.6 gdi ,engine has 105,000 on the clock and fried a piston ,currently waiting on dealership to see if it qualifies for replacement ,...car was never run low on oil ,followed the maintenance schedule religiously ,it had all recalls done ,it was eating oil like a 2stroke but was running on all 4 up in till sudden death
....,troubleshot it myself before taking it to dealer ......code po303 ,constant misfire ,has spark ,has fuel ,changed plug ,checked compression (45psi on 3) ,no vacuum ,huge amount of blow-by ,....scoped cylinder ,...piston is there ,wall looks scored ,no holes ,didn't see anything catastrophic and rod bearings may be ok ....

this my mothers car ,if the factory doesn't fix it ,then "i'm" going to have to fix it ,as she's a senoir and can't afford to take it as a loss
.....i'm not an expert ,but not a novice ,came here to look for resources for parts ,repairs and options ,to ask about availability of replacement parts ,upgraded parts ,replacement short blocks ,ect ....are there any retailers that sell sleeves and/or pistons in repair clearance spec (slightly larger in order rebore block) and can you re-hone ,re-bore or fix a cylinder bore or these particular engines

any links ,resources and advice would be greatly appreciated and may prove really helpful to others who may stumble onto the threat ,....i had a hard time finding anything on resources and options ,i think this engine might be repairable but won't know intill i tear it down ,looking to get a head start on the where ,who and hows ......

edit* just saw i posted on wrong gen topic ,will repost in gen 2 but the thread may still apply to gen 1 owners

 

[MonsterSoul]

piston is there ,wall looks scored

I think that's pretty catastrophic. But if you can do the work maybe not. I believe your parts are available from Kia, it's not that old.

 

[simplekiaowner]

I think that's pretty catastrophic. But if you can do the work maybe not. I believe your parts are available from Kia, it's not that old.

catastrophic is being able to inspect the piston from the outside of the motor ,lol ,....from what i could see with a camera scope ,the scoring didn't look real bad ,wouldn't know for sure unless i pull the head off but i might be able to re-hone it ,totally don't know it can get away with that with these motors though .... i was more curios if this motor could be machined/bored and fitted with a size up piston set

.......i'm a little weary of oem replacement parts from dealer ,if available i'd opt for slightly higher grade aftermarket if i go through the trouble of repairing it ....i couldn't find much via aftermarket except high grade expensive tuner parts .....i don't want hot rod it out ,but maybe want to put a little better grade parts in it as far as pistons and rings

if the dealer doesn't fix it ,then it'd be me doing most of the labor ,i have experience building motors and have friends in low places as far as machine work ,...i'm just not experienced with kia and want to learn more about my options ,thank you for the response though

 

[MonsterSoul]

Stick around, do a search. There are people with much better answers than me on here.
Your questions may already be posted about.

 

[bwdz75]

If I were a betting man I would say you have a burnt valve not a scored piston. Your statement that the walls don't look too bad and it has 45psi compression would have me use a bore scope with the side camera on it and look up at the valves. If you aren't doing regular CRC or other valve cleaning methods on a GDI engine they will build up carbon and likely have stuck rings and lots of carbon on a valve. There are multiple write ups on here for a piston soak to free up the piston rings, check those out. As far as replacement if you have to go that route the long block is around $2200 and a short block is in the $1400 range but then you add the gaskets and head bolts etc.. and not a lot to be saved going that route.

 

[simplekiaowner]

If I were a betting man I would say you have a burnt valve not a scored piston. Your statement that the walls don't look too bad and it has 45psi compression would have me use a bore scope with the side camera on it and look up at the valves. If you aren't doing regular CRC or other valve cleaning methods on a GDI engine they will build up carbon and likely have stuck rings and lots of carbon on a valve. There are multiple write ups on here for a piston soak to free up the piston rings, check those out. As far as replacement if you have to go that route the long block is around $2200 and a short block is in the $1400 range but then you add the gaskets and head bolts etc.. and not a lot to be saved going that route.

i had thought about the valves but was thinking the large amount of blow by would indicate compression loss downward ,it had more exaust coming out of the filler cap then the tailpipe when i took it off ..... was a very well maintained engine ,we used high grade ,or mid-grade gas at almost every fill up ,usually sonoco ...it's problems are likely from carbon build up but it looked pretty clean on the piston top and plugs ,thinking it could also be from of high combustion temps from a clogged cat
......i also wanted to note ,this car had the cat replaced under warranty at 82,000 , symptoms of low gas mileage and oil consumption started when that cat started to clog up ,or rather progressed quickly ,after the cat replacement i started to use only high grade gas
....thanks for the reply's ,this is my moms car ,who's almost 80 ,she still drives but only locally ,my family uses the car to help her and the other 2 seniors she lives with ...,i actually thought it be more expensive to buy a shortblock or longblock from kia ,so your reply's have already helped a lot as far weighing numbers and my time

i'm actually in regret on not doing carbon treatments , :/ ,... i'm old , just learning about them there "new fangled fancy" gdi engines .......lol ....,first one i've ever worked on ,... and again thank you

 

[MonsterSoul]

GLW Fix.

 

[simplekiaowner]

i got a few questions ....maybe you folks can help ,....i've been reading till my brain hurts every night since this thing went south ,.... two things i'm curios about
....the knock sensor update ,this car had the recall update done ....i always thought a knock sensor and engine knock had to do with pre-detonation and piston knock ,why would kia only warranty the rod bearings but not anything piston/bore related damage that i thought detonation or knock ,could also cause

....the cat clogging up ,somewhere i read there was a recall update for this ,i had thought this car had all it's recalls squared away via the dealership ,.....and any information i'm finding on cat problems is unclear what models ,whats done ,whats covered and what was actually recalled or warranty'd or fixed via goodwill ....even the dealer dosn't seem to know anything about whats going on with it

...also ,another thing that bothers me ,...our dealer told my mother and me that the car was not under warranty at 92,000 miles when we took it back for the cat going bad ,she's the original owner and from what i read ,she should have been covered till 100k ,they did replace the cat for free but said it was a goodwill replacement and said it wasn't under warranty ,
....the full story - originally the cat threw a code and check engine at 82k miles ,at which i took it to the dealer and had it diagnosed ,they told us we'd have to come back to have the cat replaced but due to pandemic and the car still ran fine (check engine didn't come back on till 91k ) ,we didn't get it replaced till 92k ,which was shortly after the check engine light came back on and the car stuttered and stalled out on the highway ,at that point it recovered and ran ok ,but check engine light stayed on ,so we took it the dealer and had it replaced ,...they said it fell under a "good will" replacement

......currently the dealership kinda told us we were probably "sol" as far as anything to do with cat problems or the knock sensor being the cause of the current failure ,and may not be eligable for anything replaced at 105k ,but they would have to contact corporate to know for sure ....car is at the dealership and we're waiting on them to call with good or bad news

......any info would be great ,......my brain hurts from reading everything i can find on the above issues and i'm still confused ...... :/

 

[Flatsole]

My opinion is knock sensor is for rod knock, bearing going bad. Detonation is completely different but there should also be a sensor for that that retards timing.

The knock sensor update was to increase the sensitivity and make sure it put your car in limp mode if it triggered. In exchange for getting the update done, Kia would warranty the rod bearings for an additional 50k miles.

I don't know what the warranty on the catalytic converter is. It's the engine that is warrantied for 100k miles for the original owner from my understanding.

 

[simplekiaowner]

My opinion is knock sensor is for rod knock, bearing going bad. Detonation is completely different but there should also be a sensor for that that retards timing.

The knock sensor update was to increase the sensitivity and make sure it put your car in limp mode if it triggered. In exchange for getting the update done, Kia would warranty the rod bearings for an additional 50k miles.

I don't know what the warranty on the catalytic converter is. It's the engine that is warrantied for 100k miles for the original owner from my understanding.

i found a link on engine knocking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_knocking ,a rod bearing knock is a bit different then a detonation knock ,but i was thinking a knock sensor is usually to help the ecu adjust timing for a more controlled combustion chamber burn ,.......in hot rods and higher performance engines ,when most folks refer to knocking ,they refer to combustion chamber knocking ,which can actually destroy rod and crank bearings if not addressed ,was thinking detonation and timing control was the purpose of the knock sensor in these motors and why the rod bearings were under extended warranty ,i would think they would cover the whole crank ,rod and piston assembly though ,.....was why i was curios about it

 

[rhysoul]

i found a link on engine knocking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_knocking ,a rod bearing knock is a bit different then a detonation knock ,but i was thinking a knock sensor is usually to help the ecu adjust timing for a more controlled combustion chamber burn ,.......in hot rods and higher performance engines ,when most folks refer to knocking ,they refer to combustion chamber knocking ,which can actually destroy rod and crank bearings if not addressed ,was thinking detonation and timing control was the purpose of the knock sensor in these motors and why the rod bearings were under extended warranty ,i would think they would cover the whole crank ,rod and piston assembly though ,.....was why i was curios about it

They replace the engine if the rod bearings fail under that KSDS warranty, they’re not just putting in new rod bearings. They made the knock sensor more sensitive or something to detect unusual knocking and the software update puts the engine in limp home mode to save itself from total destruction.

 

[simplekiaowner]

They replace the engine if the rod bearings fail under that KSDS warranty, they’re not just putting in new rod bearings. They made the knock sensor more sensitive or something to detect unusual knocking and the software update puts the engine in limp home mode to save itself from total destruction.

ok ,that might make a little bit more sense ......so like ,....the bearings failing is the addressed issue ? ,but the knock sensor update modifies what it is "listening for" in order to also detect the bearings failing earlier ,is that correct ???.....thank you ,rhysoul and flatsole ,that would actually clarify why piston and rings wouldn't be covered by a knock sensor update extended warranty

.........uh , ....i cant help but wonder ,why do the bearings fail

 

[rhysoul]

.......uh , ....i cant help but wonder ,why do the bearings fail

In my opinion it’s from not checking or changing the oil enough and running it dry. However, I don’t think negligence is covered under the warranty

is that correct

That’s my understanding of this update, yes.

 

[simplekiaowner]

i can't help but wonder ,if poor maintenance causes the bearing failures , ... then why would a recall and update to detect it be the fix offered ,......so like ,it would allude to either ,bearing failure is an issue , and /or a different issue causing bearing failure

 

[bwdz75]

ok ,that might make a little bit more sense ......so like ,....the bearings failing is the addressed issue ? ,but the knock sensor update modifies what it is "listening for" in order to also detect the bearings failing earlier ,is that correct ???.....thank you ,rhysoul and flatsole ,that would actually clarify why piston and rings wouldn't be covered by a knock sensor update extended warranty

.........uh , ....i cant help but wonder ,why do the bearings fail

You are spot on. The knock sensor is there to back off timing due to detonation. The update creates a new part of the software that interprets other engine noises as a sign of failure and puts into limp mode with a flashing check engine light to prevent catastrophic failure such as a rod going through the block and causing a fire. This was done as a safety measure. Kia is by far the best manufacturer for extending warranties and doing goodwill repairs that I have ever dealt with. As far as your warranty and catalytic converter are concerned, the car came with a 5/60 warranty for pretty much anything, 10/100 powertrain and 8/80 federal emissions warranty. The cat was under the 8/80.

 

[Flatsole]

i can't help but wonder ,if poor maintenance causes the bearing failures , ... then why would a recall and update to detect it be the fix offered ,......so like ,it would allude to either ,bearing failure is an issue , and /or a different issue causing bearing failure

Bearings usually fail from lack of lubrication and in my opinion it usually happens to people who think checking their oil level is beneath them, and changing the oil isn't a priority.

I think the update was due to the potential safety consequences of catastrophic bearing failure at highway speeds. Someone who can't be bothered to check or change their oil probably would just keep driving if they heard funny noises and just a check engine light.

The KSDS update prevents that, makes the car pretty much undrivable if it thinks the bearings are headed to failure. And Kia says that shouldn't happen before 150k miles if the car is properly maintained.

 

[simplekiaowner]

i think i understand now ,it's a safety thing and the culprit often low oil combined with poor maintenance

hate to sound like i'm putting the car down ,it's a good little car ....other then the engine ,this thing hasn't needed anything but brakes and tires ,was sorta why i was curios about upgrading the engine ,seems like if i get that squared away ,the car may last a long time .......it's a fun little thing to drive to ,i've literally compared it as a korean mini cooper

frustrating part of it all ,is i followed everything i knew to prolong it's life ,we changed oil almost every 4k ,decent synthetic blend ,used mostly high test gas ,had it taken in for recalls ,ect ....it was actually dealer maintained till about 60k miles ,we started doing oil changes locally or myself because my mother was nervous about driving to the dealership (the distance and chaotic traffic where it is) ,even kept records

last 20k miles ,i was checking oil almost every tank ,as soon as i noticed it was eating it faster ,i started trying to find out why and steped up checking it more ,this cars never been run lower the 3/4 quart down .....,but i only have so much time .....i never actually knew about carbon build up till i started reading about it on here and then researching it ,....was why i joined ,i've been lurking all year ....one of you folks should start a youtube channel ,when researching this thing ,i noted there's literally people "making a living" bashing the brand on there ,owners could use more videos on youtube to help educate on how to better care for these cars ,ours is likely victim of carbon build up on rings causing oil consumption and cat to clog ,then cascading into ring/piston damage .....but almost every search i did containing 1.6 gdi ,either brings up idiots bashing the brand ,or ambulance chasers vulcuring the recalls ,....the brand could use some positive pr and more educational pr

we'll hopefully find out more from dealer soon ,i'll update on their decision when i know more and thanks for the reply's

 

[Flatsole]

Sorry for the initial confusion, I honestly had no idea that the rod knock sensor was just the detonation sensor repurposed. I never had one of these engines apart, I just had this mental model of something up by the head tuned for higher frequency pinging/detonation noise to adjust timing, and something lower on the block tuned for lower frequency bad mechanical noises. I guess it makes sense though.

 

[simplekiaowner]

As far as your warranty and catalytic converter are concerned, the car came with a 5/60 warranty for pretty much anything, 10/100 powertrain and 8/80 federal emissions warranty. The cat was under the 8/80.

that also clarifies the warranty ,dealer service mentioned 8/80 when we brought it in for the cat ,but didn't didn't give much detail on what was covered
....
also wanted to note for others ....when i questioned service desk about warranty ,the dealer didn't clarify that the kdsd recall only covered bearing damage ,i would have had my mother trade it in before 100k if i knew exact details , in hindsight ,i wish i had researched it more ,mentioning it as i hope others see this thread and it helps educate

 

[simplekiaowner]

As far as replacement if you have to go that route the long block is around $2200 and a short block is in the $1400 range but then you add the gaskets and head bolts etc.. and not a lot to be saved going that route.

so far , .... trying to figure out if i can actually buy an engine for this thing seems to be frustrating nightmare ,dealerships estimating 5,000 to 8,000 us$ for shortblock or longblock without installing it and nobody has any clue to how long it would take to get it ,....i haven't been able to get an exact price or timeline as it seems nobody knows anything and everybody just wants to "call you back" ........"as never as possible" ....but i'm waiting to hear back from 2 different dealerships

kia corporate customer affairs ......please hold or choose option b of waiting till the next millennium for a return phone call ....haven't found out anything from them ,if it's covered ,if they're going to replace it ,...or if the public is aloud to purchase an engine , if new engine's are available ,and if there is an extended wait time/back log via purchasing one at a dealership ....currently waiting to hear back from them

as far as remanufactured engines ,it's another waiting game for a call back as far as price and availability if i go through a reputable company (like jasper or big re-manufacturing outfits) ,.....autoparts parts retailers have them ,but i'm not sure i trust the big chain parts store engines

.....i'm currently tryng to teach my 80 year old mother how to use "uber" ,....as nobody wants to finance her for a new car unless she unloads the 2016 for a "substantial loss" so as it seems ,she's going to be walking for a while no matter what rout we go