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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
2011 Soul Plus, 2.0 with Automatic, 166,000 miles. My question is; does this engine have an EGR Valve? I’ve done some research and it appears the 1.6 does but I cannot find any info if the 2.0 does or not. I’m trying to figure out a random engine cut-out issue at idle, plus a rough idle when the engine is started after driving the vehicle for a few miles, then restarting the engine, for example stopping at a convenience store then getting back in and starting the vehicle to leave.
 

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It does not have an EGR valve. If I was a guessing man I would tell you to replace the crank position sensor for your symptoms just because I have seen this a few times. If you have a scanner and the car cuts off at idle scan the car right there and then, basically do not turn off the key. They don't like to set and keep the crank position sensor code but if the car cuts out and before you cycle the key again you scan it then it will pull up the code.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Yea I thought of that, I had a Ford Taurus about 10 years ago that had a Cam Sensor issue. I have replaced the Crank, Cam and Throttle Position sensors but none of these have helped the problem, no better or worse. I’m running out of ideas so this why I’m questioning the EGR Valve, it’s never been replaced. I also removed the Idle Air Control and cleaned it, the engine does seem to Idle smoother now, but no change in the issue. There doesn’t seem to be any rhyme or reason to the Cut-Out, sometimes in the morning only, sometimes in the afternoon only, sometimes after only the first few miles, or sometimes after 50 miles or more, and sometimes once a day or four or more separate times in one day?? And yes, I do have a Code Scanner, but there have not been any codes stored, and the engine does not completely stall out, I have been driving around with the scanner hooked up just in case.
 

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Yea I thought of that, I had a Ford Taurus about 10 years ago that had a Cam Sensor issue. I have replaced the Crank, Cam and Throttle Position sensors but none of these have helped the problem, no better or worse. I’m running out of ideas so this why I’m questioning the EGR Valve, it’s never been replaced. I also removed the Idle Air Control and cleaned it, the engine does seem to Idle smoother now, but no change in the issue. There doesn’t seem to be any rhyme or reason to the Cut-Out, sometimes in the morning only, sometimes in the afternoon only, sometimes after only the first few miles, or sometimes after 50 miles or more, and sometimes once a day or four or more separate times in one day?? And yes, I do have a Code Scanner, but there have not been any codes stored, and the engine does not completely stall out, I have been driving around with the scanner hooked up just in case.
check fuel pressure my friend...sounds like you have skills so the air looking pressure nip on fuel rail ...gauges are cheap harbor freight....pumps can act weird before they set code...idk ...I would want to rule that out before I went farther...sounds like your getting close
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Well, I took the vehicle to an independent shop about a month ago for this problem plus a couple of other issues and of course they couldn’t find anything wrong, so I had them do a Fuel Pressure check, they advised the pressure is solid at 50 psi, they advised they also took it on a short test drive and it did not go below the 50 psi. Also, the spark plugs and wires are only about 2 years old but I was thinking of pulling the plug wires off just to look at them where they connect to the spark plugs.
 

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First question, did you use a genuine crank sensor? Unfortunately this is one of those parts that really should be. Second, maybe a coolant temp sensor? Does your scanner let you read live data? If so, i could check the output of that.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
No, I installed an Aftermarket, trying to keep the cost down since I’m just throwing parts at it at the moment. Seems like if the aftermarket was bad the problem would have been affected, i.e. worse, but there was no change at all. I doubt the coolant temp sensor is bad, the gauge seems to work normally, the scanner does appear to have live read, they call it DataStream, assuming it’s what you’re referring to
 

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Well, I took the vehicle to an independent shop about a month ago for this problem plus a couple of other issues and of course they couldn’t find anything wrong, so I had them do a Fuel Pressure check, they advised the pressure is solid at 50 psi, they advised they also took it on a short test drive and it did not go below the 50 psi. Also, the spark plugs and wires are only about 2 years old but I was thinking of pulling the plug wires off just to look at them where they connect to the spark plugs.
being a 40 yr ase cert. tech...I am telling you that fuel pumps on the way out are intermintent...the problem just didn't arise when trying to troubleshoot...the gauge is so cheap and you can check when it starts to show it's horns,,,just a thought ...keep chipping away and when you find it you will know more than a lot of techs working on are cars...most techs just throw parts at it till they find it...hmmm where do they get those parts other customer cars and parts dept....I am sorry I didn't want to say that....but dealers are only as good as there best tech...
 

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No, I installed an Aftermarket, trying to keep the cost down since I’m just throwing parts at it at the moment. .....
Did you check the wisdom of do-it-yourselfers before buying an aftermarket crank position sensor? Blindly going non-OE aftermarket for engine parts can often be false economy. That rule of thumb applies to many automobiles.

Rough idle. Have you cleaned or replaced the PCV valve? Have you cleaned the air throttle body intake including the butterfly valve?

Your engine is GDI if not mistaken. EDIT: I am mistaken! See rhysoul's post below. Have you been cleaning the back of the air intake valves? That question is not relevant for an MPI engine.
 
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Your engine is GDI if not mistaken. Have you been cleaning the back of the air intake valves?
Both Gamma 1.6 and Beta 2.0 engines in 2011 were MPI, but I agree with using OE parts, especially for a sensor, and they don’t cost much more than the aftermarket junk at a parts store.

If your aftermarket sensor didn’t help, put the OE one back in because it won’t be long till the aftermarket one goes wonky.
 
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Did you check the wisdom of do-it-yourselfers before buying an aftermarket crank position sensor? Blindly going non-OE aftermarket for engine parts can often be false economy. That rule of thumb applies to many automobiles.

Rough idle. Have you cleaned or replaced the PCV valve? Have you cleaned the air throttle body intake including the butterfly valve?

Your engine is GDI if not mistaken. Have you been cleaning the back of the air intake valves?
Generally those problems wouldn't be intermintent.....when those problems arise ....they are there and don't go away
 

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Both Gamma 1.6 and Beta 2.0 engines in 2011 were MPI, but I agree with using OE parts, especially for a sensor, and they don’t cost much more than the aftermarket junk at a parts store.
......
Well then, fixing up AZ-red's Soul should not be as difficult as I originally imagined.

Thanks for the correction rhysoul.

Just one little quibble. There are lots of quality aftermarket parts available. Many are OE specification and seem to work really well. It all 'depends'. Hence the interest in figuring out the prevailing wisdom/consensus on part choice.
 
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Just one little quibble. There are lots of quality aftermarket parts available. Many are OE specification and seem to work really well.
That’s true, I should have been more specific. Since he is aiming to keep the cost low, I figured he bought the cheapest one he could find.

I just priced a Duralast one at AutoZone and then at an online Kia dealer and they’re about the same price before shipping, but probably a little more if you went to your local dealer.
 

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That’s true, I should have been more specific. Since he is aiming to keep the cost low, I figured he bought the cheapest one he could find.
......
Automobile parts are capital items. They provide a stream of service over the span of many years. If the information was readily available, the cost per year should be the critical factor. Typically it is not and we are left making the best intelligent guesses possible.

For many wear items -- hiking shoes and boots, waders, outdoor clothing, tires, suspension and engine parts -- buying quality and durability often means paying more upfront.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Based on the previous posts purchasing the Aftermarket crank sensor was the worst idea ever… but as mentioned I’m just trying to find out what the problem is. If the AM Crank sensor fails, I will use an OEM. I just recently replaced the PCV valve, you will all go crazy because I put on an Aftermarket, OMG. I have only driven the vehicle a few times since but the problem persisted. I haven’t looked inside the throttle body but will in a couple of days. On the OEM Verses Aftermarket scandal, my vehicle has had no less than six OEM Purge Valves replaced; for the seventh one I replaced it with an Aftermarket. Unfortunately, the Aftermarket was not made correctly so the parameters were incorrect and it would only allow flow at highway speeds. I replaced it with an OEM and it now opens correctly (including at Idle). So, I understand that not all AM is equal to OEM.
 

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Not all aftermarket is junk, but with so many poor quality parts on the market, I always suggest OEM when it comes to an electrical part like a sensor, especially if the aftermarket brands logo has wings.
 
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This isn't going to solve your issue but here is some food for thought on after market parts. I used to drive semi trucks, I live in the Detroit area where a lot of automotive suppliers are based. I was delivering a very over size load of a laser tube cutting machine to one of those manufacturers. The reason for the$1.3 million machine was that they landed an OEM contract as a supplier for the part that they were making but it did not meet OEM specs the way that they made it so they had to invest. They also straight up told me that they will be running 2 lines, one making the OEM part and the other making the same part that they always have. All in all you would purchase a part and it would have the same brand on it as OEM and you would think you just saved money but the part would not be the same. Some after market parts are OK and others are not, it is nearly impossible to tell, sometimes they work and sometimes they don't.
One other quick story, back in the 90s I ran a flow bench for a company that made after market high performance mass air meters for increasing the horsepower on the popular cars of the day (5.0 Mustangs were like 80% of our business) We had competitors, other companies that made similar products. The meter housings were made by us but everyone used a factory electronic box with the hot wires sourced from OEM suppliers. We actually flow tested each meter before it shipped out and we did our calibration electronically by adjusting the weld plate resistors for whatever size injectors you were running. The other companies just changed the size of the sample tube to allow a different amount of air to go across the hot wire. They didn't even take into consideration that the hot wire OEM boxes were only calibrated within 10%, some were 10% lean and others 10% rich with most being only a couple % off. We knew that because we actually flow tested each one and when you ordered one of ours it would come with the printout of the flow test and the readings so it would make it very easy for you to tune your car. While there we tested all kinds of other parts including replacement mass air meters from the after market because some of those suppliers wanted to sell us their hot wire box (the electronics part of the mass air meter). Not one of them came close to having the quality we needed for our after market, not even OEM part, that's how bad it was and probably still is.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I know it’s a crapshoot with aftermarket, but Kia parts are not exactly great in all cases either, i.e., six Purge valves, plus four Cannister valves, replaced by the dealer (and there’s still issues) a motor mount that only lasted three years, plus a couple others. I grew up working on cars but they were primarily from the fifties through the eighties including, 1967 and 1968 Mercury Cougar, 1971 Ford Bronco, 1955 Willys Jeep PU, 1964 & 1957 VW Bugs, 1987 Ford Mustang GT and most recently, 1981 Jeep CJ 5 that I still have. Working on these vehicles I was only purchasing Aftermarket mainly because that’s the only parts that are still available. But I realize that with the Newer vehicles that are primarily electronically controlled using milliamperes and multiple sensors the OEM is preferred. I know because Kia Souls are only about 12 years old and still in production the only excuse not to use OEM is the cost. The AM Crank and Cam Sensors were from O’Reilly Auto Parts, I’m not sure what the other post is referring to with the “Wings” reference?
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Yea, I may be having the same issues later, we will see how good or bad they are. The brand name is “Import Direct” but of the three most recently purchased parts they are all manufactured in different countries. Crank sensor-Taiwan, Cam Sensor-Mexico, PCV valve-Korea, there may be some hope for the last one.
 
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