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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Yesterday my wife called me in a panic that the engine light was on. I told her to turn the car off, as she was parked at the bank and was about to leave. I went over to meet her and since we have CAA (Canada) we had it towed to the dealership we purchased it from. I asked them to check the codes and it has the dreaded rod knock sensor error (P1326). Because I did know little about it I left it and asked them to check and call me back. In the meantime I have been doing research and, well I am somewhat baffled. We had SC034 (KSDS upgrade) installed and have warranty on the car. It has a 10 year, 100,000 km on it, but because we installed SC034 it has now 200,000km of warranty. This is a 2016, EX, 2.0L and my wife loves it. It is her second Soul. Luckily I found a ton of information and looked up the vin and it shows all the recall upgrades have been done. It is very well maintained has only 84000 on it. We also have all maintenance records. The first thing the mechanic asks is where we had filled up, I do recall we had forgotten to close the gas cap properly so we checked that immediately and it was properly seated. I told him we generally fill up at Costco and he says: Well there's your problem, cheap gas. I could not believe my ears. Come to find out that my wife filled up at Shell, so that point is moot. Anyway, I went home and told them to call me when they have more information. Will keep you posted, I do expect to have a long road ahead, but I already have formed my opinion and the way I want to go. If anyone has information that has gone through this adventure, I would like to hear. I have also signed up for the class action lawsuit here in Ontario and Quebec.
 

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The tech was correct about cheap gas causing detonation and setting a knock sensor code. Also with quality gas such as shell you will get better mileage.
However it does seem you might have a rod knock which means a new short block. Keep us posted on your results. Best of luck.
 

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Costco gas (at least in the US) is Top Tier and excellent quality so that is a bunch of nonsense from the tech, but poor quality gas can cause problems. Shell gas is also Top Tier.

Hopefully the dealer fixes the problem. Let us know.

 

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Costco gas (at least in the US) is Top Tier and excellent quality so that is a bunch of nonsense from the tech, but poor quality gas can cause problems. Shell gas is also Top Tier.

Hopefully the dealer fixes the problem. Let us know.

Thanks for the link. I have never used their gas. I always buy shell gas. That said, lots of people use the cheapest gas they can find. In the long run cheap gas costs more because of less gas mileage and engine damage. Any top tier gas is fine because the companies that sell it use their own additives to burn cleaner and reduce carbon build up. Over the years I have experminted with different brands and always get better mileage on shell gas.
 

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Thanks for the link. I have never used their gas. I always buy shell gas. That said, lots of people use the cheapest gas they can find. In the long run cheap gas costs more because of less gas mileage and engine damage. Any top tier gas is fine because the companies that sell it use their own additives to burn cleaner and reduce carbon build up. Over the years I have experminted with different brands and always get better mileage on shell gas.
:unsure: Locally, we only see one generic looking tanker truck coming to our city. The distribution center is an hour away. Never see a Shell tanker truck. Never see a Chevron tanker truck. Does the driver really put additives as he makes his rounds? Or, is it all the same in the end?
 

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2017 KIA Soul base, Titanium. Bought some better taars.
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Most gas sold in the US and presumably Canada is top tier. Octane, not fuel brand, will cause detonation. Timing that's off can also cause detonation. The tech is operating on ancient mythology.
I have noticed no significant MPG difference between brands or between regular 87 and premium 91 or mid grade 89 octane. That's over many years of watching these things.

Hopefully OP will get their issue resolved and not turn out to be a one post wonder.
 

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:unsure: Locally, we only see one generic looking tanker truck coming to our city. The distribution center is an hour away. Never see a Shell tanker truck. Never see a Chevron tanker truck. Does the driver really put additives as he makes his rounds? Or, is it all the same in the end?
Bunch of years ago I used to pretty religiously buy Shell gas - paying more per gallon. But then I read an article that said a Shell station (and presumably any other branded station), if they had trouble getting ahold of Shell gas, could legally fill their underground tanks with whatever gas they could get ahold of. And there was no requirement to inform the consumer.

Maybe that legal permission only applied to the state I was in at the time.

With previous cars I mostly (say >95% of the time) used Sam's Club gas.

But with the purchase of the Kia Soul and Kia recommending use of Top Tier gas, I switched to Costco and have since exclusively purchased gas from there.
 

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Closest gas station to me has been under many names.. At one time was a Shell I think, BP, some other names, now a Circle K. As far as I know, the gas has always been the same. They are not currently buying the "Top Tier" licensing from what I can gather.

Interesting the bargain place I like to stop if I go to the big city.. it's either Top Tier or not Top Tier depending on whether you look at Road Ranger or Top Tier website 🤔
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Yesterday my wife called me in a panic that the engine light was on. I told her to turn the car off, as she was parked at the bank and was about to leave. I went over to meet her and since we have CAA (Canada) we had it towed to the dealership we purchased it from. I asked them to check the codes and it has the dreaded rod knock sensor error (P1326). Because I did know little about it I left it and asked them to check and call me back. In the meantime I have been doing research and, well I am somewhat baffled. We had SC034 (KSDS upgrade) installed and have warranty on the car. It has a 10 year, 100,000 km on it, but because we installed SC034 it has now 200,000km of warranty. This is a 2016, EX, 2.0L and my wife loves it. It is her second Soul. Luckily I found a ton of information and looked up the vin and it shows all the recall upgrades have been done. It is very well maintained has only 84000 on it. We also have all maintenance records. The first thing the mechanic asks is where we had filled up, I do recall we had forgotten to close the gas cap properly so we checked that immediately and it was properly seated. I told him we generally fill up at Costco and he says: Well there's your problem, cheap gas. I could not believe my ears. Come to find out that my wife filled up at Shell, so that point is moot. Anyway, I went home and told them to call me when they have more information. Will keep you posted, I do expect to have a long road ahead, but I already have formed my opinion and the way I want to go. If anyone has information that has gone through this adventure, I would like to hear. I have also signed up for the class action lawsuit here in Ontario and Quebec.
Here is an update: We just went back to pick up our car. I simply do not understand what they have done, if anything.
"Cause: 202220R6
Scan for codes, found code P1326 check for tsb eng0320310
Check for ECM update. Found update available.
perform update as bot pass (i think that should show both instead of bot) and no other action is required by tsb.
ECU Software update 202220R6"

Mind you that there is a discrepancy in the cause and the update, but what do I know right?
Any mechanics here that can confirm this or did they just clear the code?

This is all I have, car runs fine, wife drove it home. I'll keep monitoring.
 

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:unsure: Locally, we only see one generic looking tanker truck coming to our city. The distribution center is an hour away. Never see a Shell tanker truck. Never see a Chevron tanker truck. Does the driver really put additives as he makes his rounds? Or, is it all the same in the end?
Most brands of gas actually come from the same depots—when the tanker is filled up a mixture of proprietary additives are added—specific for the gas station brand that the tanker will be offloading. The same tanker will go back to the depot and can be filled with a different brand additive mixture. The tanks usually have a divider so that the tanker can carry both high octane and regular fuel to gas stations.
 

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Here is an update: We just went back to pick up our car. I simply do not understand what they have done, if anything.
"Cause: 202220R6
Scan for codes, found code P1326 check for tsb eng0320310
Check for ECM update. Found update available.
perform update as bot pass (i think that should show both instead of bot) and no other action is required by tsb.
ECU Software update 202220R6"

Mind you that there is a discrepancy in the cause and the update, but what do I know right?
Any mechanics here that can confirm this or did they just clear the code?

This is all I have, car runs fine, wife drove it home. I'll keep monitoring.
I'm a firm believer in 91 octane. Just use it. It will pay off in the long run. I wouldn't put 87 octane in my worst enemy's lawnmower. Dont put it in your car. 87 is only used to clean sap off chainsaws and hedge trimmer blades and machetes.
Never put 87 in your car. Ever.
Stick to 91 and up now , since oil companies are allowed to use Ethanol dilution up to 15 percent.
 

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TOP TIER gas differs from lesser gas mainly because of the superior detergent packages, which can make a huge difference, including reduced tendency for detonation ("knocking") over time.

In any individual tank, however, it's freshness and octane that make a difference. Low-octane gas or stale gas that has started to separate can cause detonation regardless of the brand.

The octane rating itself is, in fact, an inverse measure of a gasoline's resistance to detonation. The term goes back to the early days of gasoline engines.

The method used was that the potential of a gasoline to cause detonation was measured by running a test engine on various percentages of iso-octane and normalized heptane. Knocking would be induced using standardized methods and the point at which it occurred compared to the engine's performance using known ratios of iso-octane and heptane. The highest-possible rating would be 100 (100 percent iso-octane).

We no longer use that testing modality, and some gasolines available today (mainly in aviation) actually exceed the equivalent of 100 percent iso-octane. But the phrase has hung around and still inversely refers to a gasoline's potential to cause detonation.

In a nutshell: The higher the octane number, the lower the potential for the fuel to cause detonation. That's true irrespective of the fuel brand or whether it's TOP TIER in any given tank of gas.

Over the long term, however, inferior gas can cause deposits that can in turn induce detonation. According to a AAA study, non-TOP TIER gas produces 18 times the deposits of TOP TIER gas, on average. Those deposits can make an engine more likely to knock because they effectively increase the compression ratio by taking up space in the combustion chamber.

The deposits themselves can also prematurely ignite the fuel. That's called preignition, which is a technically-different, but also-destructive phenomenon that stresses the engine and can cause premature failure.

The take-home is that when you buy a new car, always use TOP TIER gas whenever possible, use a good fuel system and combustion chamber cleaner like Techron if you can't, and always use gas of one octane grade above the manufacturer's requirement.

Or in other words, do exactly the opposite of what the US EPA recommends.

The good news is that you may get better fuel economy from higher-octane fuel (again contradicting the EPA) because especially in automatic-transmission vehicles (but also in manuals), the higher-octane gas will delay the ECU making inefficient adjustments to trim and spark timing in response to detonation (and will also delay downshifting in automatic-transmission cars).

The amount of octane-related fuel-economy improvement depends on how conducive to detonation a driver's driving style is, and the terrain in which they operate. The savings are most in hilly terrains (going uphill increases engine load and is conducive to knocking), and least in prairies.

Using a higher-octane fuel will always reduce tendency to detonate, however; and using TOP TIER gas will always reduce deposits. So if you want your car's engine to last as long as possible, choosing the combination of TOP TIER gas an an octane grade one level above the manufacturer's specification is a good strategy.

Richard
 

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TOP TIER gas differs from lesser gas mainly because of the superior detergent packages, which can make a huge difference, including reduced tendency for detonation ("knocking") over time.

In any individual tank, however, it's freshness and octane that make a difference. Low-octane gas or stale gas that has started to separate can cause detonation regardless of the brand.

The octane rating itself is, in fact, an inverse measure of a gasoline's resistance to detonation. The term goes back to the early days of gasoline engines.

The method used was that the potential of a gasoline to cause detonation was measured by running a test engine on various percentages of iso-octane and normalized heptane. Knocking would be induced using standardized methods and the point at which it occurred compared to the engine's performance using known ratios of iso-octane and heptane. The highest-possible rating would be 100 (100 percent iso-octane).

We no longer use that testing modality, and some gasolines available today (mainly in aviation) actually exceed the equivalent of 100 percent iso-octane. But the phrase has hung around and still inversely refers to a gasoline's potential to cause detonation.

In a nutshell: The higher the octane number, the lower the potential for the fuel to cause detonation. That's true irrespective of the fuel brand or whether it's TOP TIER in any given tank of gas.

Over the long term, however, inferior gas can cause deposits that can in turn induce detonation. According to a AAA study, non-TOP TIER gas produces 18 times the deposits of TOP TIER gas, on average. Those deposits can make an engine more likely to knock because they effectively increase the compression ratio by taking up space in the combustion chamber.

The deposits themselves can also prematurely ignite the fuel. That's called preignition, which is a technically-different, but also-destructive phenomenon that stresses the engine and can cause premature failure.

The take-home is that when you buy a new car, always use TOP TIER gas whenever possible, use a good fuel system and combustion chamber cleaner like Techron if you can't, and always use gas of one octane grade above the manufacturer's requirement.

Or in other words, do exactly the opposite of what the US EPA recommends.

The good news is that you may get better fuel economy from higher-octane fuel (again contradicting the EPA) because especially in automatic-transmission vehicles (but also in manuals), the higher-octane gas will delay the ECU making inefficient adjustments to trim and spark timing in response to detonation (and will also delay downshifting in automatic-transmission cars).

The amount of octane-related fuel-economy improvement depends on how conducive to detonation a driver's driving style is, and the terrain in which they operate. The savings are most in hilly terrains (going uphill increases engine load and is conducive to knocking), and least in prairies.

Using a higher-octane fuel will always reduce tendency to detonate, however; and using TOP TIER gas will always reduce deposits. So if you want your car's engine to last as long as possible, choosing the combination of TOP TIER gas an an octane grade one level above the manufacturer's specification is a good strategy.

Richard
Very well stated.
 

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Yesterday my wife called me in a panic that the engine light was on. I told her to turn the car off, as she was parked at the bank and was about to leave. I went over to meet her and since we have CAA (Canada) we had it towed to the dealership we purchased it from. I asked them to check the codes and it has the dreaded rod knock sensor error (P1326). Because I did know little about it I left it and asked them to check and call me back. In the meantime I have been doing research and, well I am somewhat baffled. We had SC034 (KSDS upgrade) installed and have warranty on the car. It has a 10 year, 100,000 km on it, but because we installed SC034 it has now 200,000km of warranty. This is a 2016, EX, 2.0L and my wife loves it. It is her second Soul. Luckily I found a ton of information and looked up the vin and it shows all the recall upgrades have been done. It is very well maintained has only 84000 on it. We also have all maintenance records. The first thing the mechanic asks is where we had filled up, I do recall we had forgotten to close the gas cap properly so we checked that immediately and it was properly seated. I told him we generally fill up at Costco and he says: Well there's your problem, cheap gas. I could not believe my ears. Come to find out that my wife filled up at Shell, so that point is moot. Anyway, I went home and told them to call me when they have more information. Will keep you posted, I do expect to have a long road ahead, but I already have formed my opinion and the way I want to go. If anyone has information that has gone through this adventure, I would like to hear. I have also signed up for the class action lawsuit here in Ontario and Quebec.
Here in the US I just got a new engine under a recall. The con rod bearings were not getting enough oil. "Warranty bulletin 2022-12". The engine was back ordered and took over a month to come. Kia America agreed to reimburse me for a rental, but only up to $43/day, and the cheapest one I could find was $51/day. And they're dragging their feet about paying at all ($1300).
 
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