[SoulfulSam]

I have a 2012 Base Kia Soul with Automatic Transmission that I bought at the end of May last year. At this point, I have just under 16,000 miles on it. The gas mileage has been a disappointment - the only disappointment - from the beginning. Instead of getting better after the break-in period, my gas mileage has gotten worse. I have had many 4-cylinder cars, and this gets the poorest mileage of all. That includes the 2008 Kia Optima we currently have. The Soul now gets between 20-23 mpg in overall mileage. My routine driving is a mix of highway and city; but I do not live in a big city with traffic jams.

Of course, Kia has come out with a rebate to make up the difference between estimated and actual mileage; but the difference is greater than they have acknowledged.

I am concerned that the direct fuel injection of the 1.6L engine may be a failed experiment. Worse yet, the local Kia dealer's service manager has implied that if I have any engine problems and they find carbon buildup, the warranty may not cover it. He said their service technicians recommend a fuel injector cleaning every 15,000 miles (a $125 job!) to avoid such problems. That is not in the maintenance schedule in the owner’s manual. I have religiously used Top Tier gasoline in my Soul, as recommended in the owner’s manual. The local dealer’s 15,000 mile service costs $214. I asked if that included the fuel injection cleaning, and it does not. It includes oil and filter change, air filter change, cabin filter change, and tire rotation. I asked if that was synthetic oil. It is not. I asked if it included fuel additive. It does not. That is an additional $11.

I find all this very discouraging. Two of the primary reasons I bought the Soul were good fuel economy and big warranty. It turns out that the fuel economy is poor, and it feels like the warranty is in jeopardy.

 

[msnider]

Mine is down too now because of the winter blend of fuel. I dropped 2 mpgs when they switched over.


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[conwelpic]

SoulfulSam - you do not have to get the normal service done at a dealership if you don't want too. Just keep records to prove that it has been done as per the suggested maintenance. Or if you have another dealer not too far away you can use a different dealership.

 

[dmwagner]

I have a 2012 Base Kia Soul with Automatic Transmission that I bought at the end of May last year. At this point, I have just under 16,000 miles on it. The gas mileage has been a disappointment - the only disappointment - from the beginning. Instead of getting better after the break-in period, my gas mileage has gotten worse. I have had many 4-cylinder cars, and this gets the poorest mileage of all. That includes the 2008 Kia Optima we currently have. The Soul now gets between 20-23 mpg in overall mileage. My routine driving is a mix of highway and city; but I do not live in a big city with traffic jams.

Of course, Kia has come out with a rebate to make up the difference between estimated and actual mileage; but the difference is greater than they have acknowledged.

I am concerned that the direct fuel injection of the 1.6L engine may be a failed experiment. Worse yet, the local Kia dealer's service manager has implied that if I have any engine problems and they find carbon buildup, the warranty may not cover it. He said their service technicians recommend a fuel injector cleaning every 15,000 miles (a $125 job!) to avoid such problems. That is not in the maintenance schedule in the owner’s manual. I have religiously used Top Tier gasoline in my Soul, as recommended in the owner’s manual. The local dealer’s 15,000 mile service costs $214. I asked if that included the fuel injection cleaning, and it does not. It includes oil and filter change, air filter change, cabin filter change, and tire rotation. I asked if that was synthetic oil. It is not. I asked if it included fuel additive. It does not. That is an additional $11.

I find all this very discouraging. Two of the primary reasons I bought the Soul were good fuel economy and big warranty. It turns out that the fuel economy is poor, and it feels like the warranty is in jeopardy.

They are just messing with you trying to get you to pay for overpriced stuff that doesn't do anything positive for your car.

Take a look at this TSB from KIA themselves to dealers such as yours that are trying to scam.
http://www.kiasoulforums.com/2-soul...ost-kias-us-normal-not-severe.html#post181013

Notice the part about fuel injectors. Also, the carbon build up line of bull, TTT gas or Chevron Techron, but with your engine being GDI, just stick with the TTT.

Regarding their 214 dollar 15K service.....
Oil Change is worth probably 30 to 40 tops. I pay my dealer 38 plus tax for a full synthetic oil change.
Air Filter is 20 dollars for a genuine KIA filter on Ebay.
Cabin Filter can be as cheap as just a few dollars to 15 dollars for a premium one. Very easily changed by yourself.
Tire Rotation should be free with an oil change in the spring if you get coupons from KIA

 

[RETIREDOLDSOUL]

Some of these dealers really piss me off, mine doesn't over charge but I now have to change oil and rotate tires myself because I learned I can't trust the minimum wage untrained people at my dealer to even actually change the filter, much less the crush washer and add the CORRECT amount of my own supplied oil. But I believe that's par for the course now days.

 

[SoulfulSam]

Wow! Good input.

Thanks, msnider, conwelpic, and dmwagner.

I did actually have it serviced elsewhere; but that whole conversation with the Kia service manager was a downer. By the time I hung up, I was too disgusted to even think of having them service it. That link to the thread with those TSBs nailed it. I think I'll take copies to the that service manager and help him read them.

I wasn't aware (or forgot) that gasoline is a different mix in the winter. I do know fuel economy takes a small hit in the winter, but I thought that was mainly due to the fact that it takes the engine longer to reach optimum operating temperature. I still think such a small car with such a small engine should get better mileage than my Soul does. My biggest concern is whether the mileage is, in fact, getting worse; because that could indicate engine problems.

I really like the driveability, utility, liveability, and clever look of my Soul; so I'd like to think it's a keeper. Your feedback has been reassuring.

Sam

 

[SoulfulSam]

Oops. I was typing when your response came in, retiredoldsoul. Thanks to you too. Pissed likes company.

 

[thewerzinator]

The biggest factor in mileage in my Soul is how hard I hit the throttle. If I drive it like I would any other vehicle, I get the low 20s, but if I drive like a granny and make sure the tachometer stays under 3k RPM at all times when accelerating, I usually get 25 MPG or so. When I have eco mode on and throttle response is really dampened, I typically get 28 MPG for 60% highway 40% city. My Soul has around 750 miles on it so far.

As for your dealership, those costs are ridiculous. The best fuel injector cleaner you can get is premium gas.. I've been getting a tank of that for my previous cars once every two or three months just to clean up carbon build up if any.

 

[Bless My Soul]

Retiredoldsoul You mentioned crush washers. Where do you get these. I want to start changing oil and filter on my Soul as it is a 200 mile round trip to nearest dealer.

 

[RETIREDOLDSOUL]

Retiredoldsoul You mentioned crush washers. Where do you get these. I want to start changing oil and filter on my Soul as it is a 200 mile round trip to nearest dealer.

It's just a flat washer for the drain plug that should come taped to the filter but In my experience you have to buy them separately. Use a new one every time to prevent leaks, quite critical and costs very little. BTW, use OEM filters from your dealer or on line.

 

[TechnoMage]

Last ? first.
If you'll just use Kia Oil Filters, available at any Kia dealer, you will get a new "crush washer" with each filter.
There is a service bulletin, warning against the use of Non-Kia oil filters. I won't risk it!

If you don't regularly use a Top Tier gasoline, Kia now recommends that you use "Techron" Gas Treatment.
Even though I do use Chevron gas at least one out of four fillups, I intend to put in a bottle of Techron, in the gas tank, every other oil change.

That will be next week, when I get my second oil change from my dealer.
(they are taking care of all my maintenance for the first year)

I will never let the dealer change any of my filters. I installed a K&N Engine Air Filter which is a lifetime filter. I'll service that myself, when needed.
For the Cabin Air Filter, I installed a FRAM FRESH BREEZE cabin air filter. I will take that out and clean it every 3k miles, and replace it once a year.
Both filters are very specialized and I don't want anyone else mucking about with them.

Even if you don't do any of your vehicle maintenance yourself, it's always a good idea to know what's going into your car. Eh?

In COLD weather, your tire pressure will go down. That can negatively impact your MPG. So, keep the pressure UP.

Good Luck!
TM

 

[DesertDave]

At my first oil change I installed a Fumoto valve in the oil pan. It allows you to drain the oil without tools, making for an even lower hassle-factor oil change - if you do them yourself as I do.

I had a similar item on my Jeep for 15 years, and have one on my diesel pickup since I did it's first oil change in 2007, and have zero issues.

FUMOTO ENGINEERING

 

[msnider]

Retiredoldsoul You mentioned crush washers. Where do you get these. I want to start changing oil and filter on my Soul as it is a 200 mile round trip to nearest dealer.

Wouldn't happen to have a Hyundai dealer closer would you? You can go to either Kia or Hyundai to stock up on filters/gaskets or buy them online from a Kia site. Just buy like 3 to 5 and you'll be set for a while. If for some stupid reason you can't get the gaskets at the dealer, I found them quick on www.rockauto.com for $0.41 per gasket or $0.35 per for 15+. Shouldn't be much more than this.


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[jfischer]

Retiredoldsoul You mentioned crush washers. Where do you get these. I want to start changing oil and filter on my Soul as it is a 200 mile round trip to nearest dealer.

I get my filter at the dealer, they always include the crush washer with the filter.

 

[TechnoMage]

I'm at a loss, to understand why they call it a "Crush" washer. It's a flat aluminum washer, nothing more and nothing less.
A flat copper washer will work just as well and is sold at almost every Auto Parts store. I bought a whole package of them right off the rack at my local Advance Auto Parts store. That's what we used on the SX4.

Checking on pricing, I find that the Kia Oil Filter is $6 and change, which is less than most premium Oil Filters off the store shelves, and it's the only one approved by Kia, to provide the correct oil pressure to the VVT system. So for me, using only the Kia filter is a NO-Brainer. Eh?

Speaking of..... I'm getting my second oil change, at my Kia dealer, next week.
My little Soul has now gone over 6000 very happy miles. It just keeps running Betterer and Betterer!

Cheers Mates!
TM

 

[jfischer]

I'm at a loss, to understand why they call it a "Crush" washer. It's a flat aluminum washer, nothing more and nothing less. A flat copper washer will work just as well and is sold at almost every Auto Parts store.

Because they're made of a relatively soft metal (aluminum or copper) and are designed to "crush" a bit when you snug them up and fill in any irregularities between the bolt and the drain pain.

 

[mountain_soul]

Regarding your fuel mileage, it looks like you may have a few factors working against you. First, your mileage has declined, but you've only had it since May, so about the time the engine was finished breaking in winter arrived with all of its fuel sucking problems (winter blend fuel, more time to reach operating temp, idling to defrost, etc.). Second, you don't mention how fast you typically drive on the highway, but if you like to run higher speeds, then the Soul's aerodynamics (or lack thereof) are not in your favor. Third, you also don't mention how long your typical commute is. The less time the engine/trans spend at operating temperature, the higher the fuel consumption. So, short commutes and/or lots of frequent short stops (e.g., delivery style driving) kill fuel economy.

Lastly, I notice that you're in Minnesota and the gas formulation for MN is more highly oxygenated than other parts of the country which trades fuel economy for less pollution. Also, I wonder if the 1.6L GDI's efficiency advantage is impacted more negatively by this type of fuel than traditional MPFI systems. I have no idea, just another variable to ponder.

And, I agree with others that you dealer is playing the FUD card and trying to sell you unnecessary services in direct contrast to the official Kia TSB on the subject.

 

[TechnoMage]

Because they're made of a relatively soft metal (aluminum or copper) and are designed to "crush" a bit when you snug them up and fill in any irregularities between the bolt and the drain pain.

Believe me, I do understand the mechanics, of why a soft metal washer is used on the drain plug. For the 50+ years that I've driven cars, it's been that way, but they didn't have a special designation such as "Crush Washer" and they were never changed, from the factory to the grave yard and if the drain plug was properly tightened, they never leaked either.

I think the whole topic does more to confuse the untrained than to prevent oil leaks.

On my last car, the SX4, it was recommended to put on a new washer with every oil change. I had that car for three years and 40k miles and it only had ONE Oil Drain Plug washer.
No leaks.

One thing I will be doing, just as soon as I start doing my own oil changes, is replace the factory drain plug with a Magnetic Drain Plug.

Cheers Mates!
TM

PS: On Topic: Discouraging fuel economy? My own experience is that I'm getting 3-5 MPG better than I was on my last car, the Suzuki SX4, iAWD, with the 2.0L engine. That's overall MPG. Out on the highway, driving at reasonable speeds, I get even better MPG.
So, I'm not unhappy at all with my Kia Soul's fuel economy. The fuel rebate makes it even sweeter.

 

[Neanderthal]

Whatever the semantics, if KIA wants a new washer with each new filter then I'm going to be sure that's what happens. Moot point really.

Techno, the SX4 is hardly a paragon of MPGs. It gets very poor MPG for weight and engine size.

My Soul gets better MPG than my Chrysler 200 3.6. That means nothing, we're talking reasonable expectations.

For the weight of the car and a supposedly advanced 1.6 liter engine and new 6A trannie, the MPG is far below reasonable expectations.

The SX4 actually gets similar overall MPG to the Soul on Fuelly.

The gold standard is the Civic. KIA engineering is still generations behind Honda in small engine design. That's the facts, Mack.

 

[mountain_soul]

...My Soul gets better MPG than my Chrysler 200 3.6. That means nothing, we're talking reasonable expectations.

For the weight of the car and a supposedly advanced 1.6 liter engine and new 6A trannie, the MPG is far below reasonable expectations.

The SX4 actually gets similar overall MPG to the Soul on Fuelly.

I wouldn't reasonably expect anyone to believe that an AWD wagon, a low sleek FWD sedan/coupe, and a Kia Soul in the shape of a flying cinder block can be compared in any meaningful way when it comes to fuel efficiency. You want to pull out the Honda Element, sure, then you've got a realistic comparo with the Soul. And, I don't think you'll find that the Honda comes out on top in that comparison. Nothing wrong with Hondas (I had an '06 Civic Coupe for a couple years), but I don't believe that when you compare apples to apples, that Hyundai/Kia are "generations behind". All IMHO, of course.