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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey Everyone, We've had our 2017 Turbo for a little over a year; and, from day 1, we have experienced difficulties with the throttle.

When pressing the throttle pedal in Drive or Reverse, there is a short deadband, followed by a surge of throttle. This makes it impossible to feather throttle input at very low speeds - necessary to smoothly parallel park, or slowly keeping pace with stop and go traffic without quickly overtaking the car directly in front of us.

Further, with the car in Park and pressing on the pedal, there is again the deadband until the TPS sends its first throttle input, at which point and despite holding the pedal position from farther travel, the motor spins up from its idle of around 600rpm to about 3500rpm. To be clear, it is impossible hold a steady throttle at 1000rpm, 1500rpm, or anywhere below 3500; and in Sport Mode, same exercise, the motor spins to redline.

I come from a world of linear throttle curves, meaning that the tach moves off its peg almost immediately when you press on the pedal, and holds rpm at precisely when the driver holds foot position on the throttle.

Local service finds this confusing, as well, but freely admits they have had little experience with the Soul Exclaim version.

I will appreciate any input anyone cares to share.

Thanks.

Steve
 

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Welcome To The Family...<:))
NOTE: Take it to the Dealer Promptly. It is a Un-Safe condition... The Factory knows of this DEFECT, and is supposedly addressing this un-safe issue. Tell the Dealer to contact the "ZONE GUY" for the FIX to this issue... Has to do with Throttle-Tip-In...
 

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I felt a bit of the same on the one I tested. They say it's the nature of the beast and whip out this TSB:

DUAL CLUTCH TRANSMISSION (DCT) CHARACTERISTICS
TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN
Reference Number(s): PS481, Date of Issue: March, 2017 KIA: All Models Equipped with DCT GROUP:Transmission
SERVICE INFORMATION
All models with a 1.6L Turbo engine may come equipped with a 7-speed Dual Clutch Transmission (DCT), except the 2017MY~ Niro (DE) with a 1.6L Atkinson engine comes equipped with a 6-speed Dual Clutch Transmission (DCT). This automatic transmission is unlike the conventional automatic transmission found in the complete line up of Kia vehicles. The new DCT improves fuel efficiency and can also provide a sportier feel. Certain aspects of this technology may lead to customer concerns if they are unfamiliar with it. To help maximize owner satisfaction on this new technology, Kia would like all dealership sales and service personnel to be familiar with the characteristics of this new transmission.
Essentially, a DCT is an automated manual transmission. Unlike a conventional automatic transmission, this transmission utilizes two separate clutches and gear sets: one for odd gears, and one for even gears. The transmission control module (TCM) engages and disengages the clutches automatically. Being an automated manual transmission, customers may experience some characteristics not common in a traditional automatic transmission, such as a shudder sensation.
This shudder sensation can be compared to what is felt when the driver of vehicle with a manual transmission disengages the clutch when coming to a stop, and then engages it to transmit power to the wheels. In vehicles equipped with a DCT, a similar sensation may be felt under light acceleration from a stop, or at slow speeds (such as in stop and go traffic).
Keep this condition in mind as you test drive the DCT equipped vehicle. A well prepared technician will be able to address customer questions by explaining these normal characteristic concerns leading to a happy customer.
In certain operating conditions, specific DCT related warning messages may appear on the instrument cluster.
While testing the Ford and FCA DCT's in Taxi use, we had multiple failures due to overheating in stop & go traffic in the hills. One might hope a calibration change could fix this. I would recommend driving another one to see if the harsh engagement is the same.
 

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The downside to DCT. It's a manual transmission being operated automatically. They don't creep well. Inching in freeway traffic is hard on them. Manufacturers suggest leaving extra distance to the car in front of you, then accelerate so the clutch can fully engage (of course that leaves a gap other drivers jump in).

Imagine parallel parking and as you inch in, dropping the clutch and surging.

The idea of DCT may sound sexy, but it's not for everyone.
 

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I wonder how it would respond if you put it in manual mode in these situations instead of leaving it in the normal auto setting.
 

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The dct engageme issue is not what the op is describing. In park he still has a gap between idle and 3500 rpm. That has nothing to do with the dct.

Dct transmissions are different and you have to get used to them. But after a few days it's no problem just like any new car. The problem comes when they break.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks for the input. Yes, I will be taking it in asap, but the techs at the local dealer have limited experience with the turbo. We bought the car new in Feb 2017, and when dropping it off for its first service last Dec, I was a bit surprised when some of the techs gathered around the car, checking it out - It was the first turbo Soul they had taken in for service, and the first one some of them had SEEN!!

And, yes, I am familiar with the shudder addressed in the TSB when the car is in stop and go. Also, yes, in manual shift mode the shudder is mitigated, however the lurching is not!

Historically, there is a lot of Throttle Position Sensor concern and discussion in various years and shapes of Souls, but little coming from Turbo owners.

Will see what the dealership comes up with.


Tks again.

Steve
 

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Welcome.

Pat.
 

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2017 KIA Soul base, Titanium. Bought some better taars.
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Welcome Steve. Good luck with your trans issue.
 

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Some comments on DCT from our friends over on the Ford forum (grassroots):

It drives almost exactly like a torque converter auto, except a bit worse in the following scenarios:

stop and go traffic - I try to drag the brake just slightly so that I can go at a single very slow speed while everyone else stops and goes. The trans on the focus cannot decide if I am trying to stop (disengage the clutch) or if I am trying to creep (engage the clutch). The result is it is nearly impossible to go slow smoothly - you almost stop, then zoom, then almost stop etc.

parallel parking - same issue as above but now in reverse. Makes you feel like an idiot stopping every 2 feet while parallel parking when in a regular auto you could just go nice and slow.

Coming to a perfectly smooth stop at red lights - I try to practice my 'trail braking' at every red light by coming off the brake so smoothly I can't actually feel when the car stops. The focus will at some point decide you are actually stopping (at about 1.5 mph) and disengage the clutch. Now the ratio of brake drag from the driver to forward push from the momentum and engine is all messed up and you definitely feel it
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Okay, so maybe what's going on is - when out of gear and holding pedal position, motor continues to run up because the car isn't moving forward.

And, maybe the lurching at low speeds is the ecu struggling with the capricious nature of the dcv.

Maybe?

Thx.

Steve
 

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To some extent this characteristic may be the combination of the DCT and the turbo. My '18 turbo takes a moment to come off of idle and generate a little power. Add this lag to the DCT nature and here we are. May just have to live with it.
 

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Okay, so maybe what's going on is - when out of gear and holding pedal position, motor continues to run up because the car isn't moving forward.

And, maybe the lurching at low speeds is the ecu struggling with the capricious nature of the dcv.

Maybe?

Thx.

Steve
I think your "maybe" is probably right Steve. I hope this works out for you.

For me personally the only way I'd consider that engine is with a stick. Like what Hyundai is doing with the Elantra GT Sport and Veloster N.
 

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Interesting. I just bought a 2018 Soul! and I thought there was something wrong with the car. When I'm driving about 30 MPH, it feels like it is trying to decide what gear it wants to be in. I sure hope as the car ages, that it'll be a little easier to modulate the throttle.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Rollinon, thanks for getting in on this discussion. You are the first turbo owner I have had input from.

Can you please tell me if, when in Park or Neutral, you can hold a steady throttle pedal at 2000rpm or 2500rpm? As in my original post I state that my car cannot. When slowly depressing the pedal and holding pedal position at point of first throttle response, the motor continues to run up to around 3000rpm to 3500rpm - this even though I have not moved the pedal any farther.

We also have a 2016 Acura MDX, and using the throttle pedal in Park or Neutral, I can easily hold a steady 1500, 2000, 2500rpm.

So, if Kia has intentionally chipped the Soul turbo to respond in this manner, it seems likely it has something to do with the DCT.

Thanks.

Steve
 

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I'm experiencing the same thing. I posted a couple of posts on http://www.kiasoulforums.com/4-new-member-introductions/109753-2014-soul-2018-soul.html about what it could be. I'm convinced it's the dual clutch. It's almost as if the car keeps it in 1st gear longer than it should. When I had a manual transmission, I only used 1st gear to get the car rolling forward, then it was immediately to 2nd gear. My guess is that there's a spot in the RPM range that throws off the transmission. The best way to handle the crazy take-offs is to play it cool and drive crazy all the time, that way everyone will assume it's just how you drive the car... lol
 

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Rollinon, thanks for getting in on this discussion. You are the first turbo owner I have had input from.

Can you please tell me if, when in Park or Neutral, you can hold a steady throttle pedal at 2000rpm or 2500rpm? As in my original post I state that my car cannot. When slowly depressing the pedal and holding pedal position at point of first throttle response, the motor continues to run up to around 3000rpm to 3500rpm - this even though I have not moved the pedal any farther.
I've had my 2017 Turbo for 1+ yrs w/20k miles & have learn how to deal with most of the DCT & throttle qwerks.
Never tried what your talking about but I will later today !
I back into a slightly elevated driveway everyday & talk about tricky, like OP said it's like all or nothing.....
I was back @ the dealer many times in 1st 6 months for different things
And always asked them to drive it and see if what I was experiencing was normal & they always said everything is fine & normal.
Soul KSF a.jpg
 

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After reading through this thread I think I've experienced something similar and I'd like to share two perspectives - our parking lot is 10KM/HR in our condo complex. If in Sport Mode or Normal mode it's near impossible to keep the throttle steady. I actually kick it into ECO when "creeping". My wife jokes about it, she loves the Turbo, she pats the dash and says "it's ok, we're in the parking lot, we'll have you back out on the freeway soon enough".
I tried to explain to her you don't want it to buck because that means the clutch is slipping a bit... but she's convinced the Soul "just wants to go" which is true, to an extent. The clutch wants to be ON or OFF...

REASON FOR THIS:
A dual clutch transmission is NOT AN AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION.
I want to be clear here... a dual clutch transmission functions and acts like a manual transmission, but the computer is doing the shifting for you.

If you've ever driven a manual clutch that has a higher end clutch (Stage 2 or Stage 3) it's ALL or nothing... the clutch is either on or off. There is no "slipping".
There is driving or stalling. With a dual clutch transmission you CAN slip the clutch (say what?... yup... not kidding)

The main difference between a Turbo Soul and a non-turbo Soul:
The torque converter. DCTs do not have a torque converter like a conventional automatic.

"Torque converters also allow you to creep forward at a somewhat glacial pace - without consequence.
We’re talking inching forwards at the kinds of speeds that would stall a manual in first gear, or require you to abuse the crap out of a clutch." - copied and pasted from autoexpert.com blog post.

---

Now that that is clear... sitting in Park or Neutral and having throttle "lag" or input is NOT normal. The vehicle is not moving, therefore the transmission is excluded from the diagnostic here.

Your throttle position is your throttle position. These Turbo'd Souls DO have a snappy throttle, that is true. So you'd have to be 100% certain you are "holding" the throttle steady before saying there is an issue.
With a dual clutch transmission, the throttle has to be absolute because of shift points, clutch engagement, etc. The deadzone you feel in an automatic is due to the torque converter.

Here's a couple of good videos regarding tranmissions, I skipped to the dual clutch section in the first video - feel free to skip the intro and get to the good stuff...
https://youtu.be/4OSDw-uyP98?t=7m45s <--- caution, not fully family friendly video - please wear headphones. (it's not terrible, but sensitive types might have issues).
https://youtu.be/HLOwY3w_TNc?t=2m44s <--- caution, not fully family friendly video - please wear headphones. (it's not terrible, but sensitive types might have issues).


I should pitch to KIA that I will do a training session for their staff around DCTs... because sadly mostly people drive a DCT like an automatic and then are shocked at how different it is.
You are actually driving a manual... (surprise!) that shifts for you.
 
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