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Kia Soul 2015 2.0 litre EX GDI Alien Green II Pearl ~56K km (35K miles) Michelin CrossClimate tires
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Ron, Thanks for all the clarifications. Bummer.

You clearly have some auto experience. A number of folks show up here with problems, make one or two posts, and then disappear, forever. It would seem that some of these people never check oil levels between changes.

I hope you get back to Canada too. Will be nice when the border re-opens for non-essential travel.

Me? I have this late-life hankering to visit West Virginia and Georgia.

take care -Erik
 

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I don't get something. This post is in the Gen 1 (-2013) subforum, but the OP says the car is 2015 model.
That would make it a 2.0 Nu GDi engine. It is well understand now that the GDi engines may fail because the valves back side and seats are not washed and cleaned by the gasoline. So the carbon deposits there are uncontrolled. Knock sensor can be made more sensitive in software, but that is just covering the root issue.

PS: Ford and Toyota added back a set of injectors in the intake manifold to combat this issue. Those work in conjunction with the direct injectors inside the combustion chamber.
 

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I don't get something. This post is in the Gen 1 (-2013) subforum, but the OP says the car is 2015 model.
That would make it a 2.0 Nu GDi engine. It is well understand now that the GDi engines may fail because the valves back side and seats are not washed and cleaned by the gasoline. So the carbon deposits there are uncontrolled. Knock sensor can be made more sensitive in software, but that is just covering the root issue.

PS: Ford and Toyota added back a set of injectors in the intake manifold to combat this issue. Those work in conjunction with the direct injectors inside the combustion chamber.
The issue in the recall was not related to GDI. Direct injection does not cause engine failure. It MAY eventually cause performance issues due to excessive carbon deposits depending mostly on driving habits and maintenance.
If that were to happen it just requires a good cleaning.
 

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Jason Levine, executive director of the Center for Auto Safety, a consumer group that has petitioned the government seeking more Hyundai and Kia recalls, said the fire and engine problems keep spreading to more vehicles.
“This recall raises the question of whether we are even beyond the tip of the iceberg with these non-crash fires with both of these manufacturers,” Levine said. “How many times are we going to hear from either Hyundai or Kia that these circumstances are unique to a particular model and then have another recall or fire situation announced weeks or months later?”
Of course that Hyundai/Kia will claim that GDI is flawless. I guess Ford and Toyota are stupid to add back port injectors to their DI.
 

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Direct injection is not “flawless“ in any car. It does add possible extra maintenance. My Audi had DI as does my wife’s VW. We’ve also owned other DI engines with no issues. Some manufacturers, including VW and Audi in Europe, not NA, have added some port injection to help mitigate carbon deposit. Good idea in my opinion. Almost every current engine at every manufacturer is direct injection. Kia deserves some credit at least for developing the new 2.0 MPI. That’s not to excuse them from past issues.
As a side note Kia has nothing on VW Audi when it comes to engine issues and the way they are handled.

Again GDI has nothing to do with engines failing due to manufacturing defect and shouldn’t be mentioned in the conversation.

As for my new 1.6T I researched it thoroughly and expect that it will be fine. I am fully prepared to have it decarbonized if it ever needs it. If it fails for some other reason I’ll deal with it and in the meantime enjoy my new car.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
I don't get something. This post is in the Gen 1 (-2013) subforum, but the OP says the car is 2015 model.
That would make it a 2.0 Nu GDi engine. It is well understand now that the GDi engines may fail because the valves back side and seats are not washed and cleaned by the gasoline. So the carbon deposits there are uncontrolled. Knock sensor can be made more sensitive in software, but that is just covering the root issue.

PS: Ford and Toyota added back a set of injectors in the intake manifold to combat this issue. Those work in conjunction with the direct injectors inside the combustion chamber.
SoNic
27
I don't get something. This post is in the Gen 1 (-2013) subforum, but the OP says the car is 2015 model.
That would make it a 2.0 Nu GDi engine. It is well understand now that the GDi engines may fail because the valves back side and seats are not washed and cleaned by the gasoline. So the carbon deposits there are uncontrolled. Knock sensor can be made more sensitive in software, but that is just covering the root issue.

PS: Ford and Toyota added back a set of injectors in the intake manifold to combat this issue. Those work in conjunction with the direct injectors inside the combustion chamber.
t
Thanks for the reply. I don’t know why the post is in the incorrect location. You seem to have an excellent knowledge or the engine. Would the scenario you described cause an engine failure that I encountered vs an oil restriction? Thanks
 

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I assume it was internal oil restriction, past the oil pressure sender location (otherwise the red light would came on). Many newer engines have oil flow reduced (for economy) and deploy lighter weight oils.
But I am by no means a specialist in that engine internals, just base my comment on anecdotal evidence. Ours is a 2011 2.0L, their older generation Beta II engine that has a good record of reliability.
This failure is hard to diagnose without dissembling the engine and would be time and money wasted (unless you go on war path and keep receipts, lawyer up and make them pay.

As a side note, Kia reverted to 2.0 Nu MPi on their 2020 engine. This engine version, with MPi, was introduced in 2017 on Hyundai Elantra (after it had a GDi fuel delivery previously).
2020 Kia Rio and 2020 Hyundai Accent and Venue 1.6L engine fuel delivery was also switched from GDi to MPi too.
That tells a story IMO about their experiment with GDi.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
I don’t know the oil flow system either. I only read this is a problem with some engines and resulted in some engine failures. My failure mode was pretty much identical to those on the NHTSA web site. I would like to know how this was investigated. I assume a mechanic disassembled an engine that had failed. I don’t want to spend the money for having my engine disassembled at this time. I would need an independent investigation so as the results would have credibility.
 

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2014 Titanium Stick Shift Pacific NW
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I assume it was internal oil restriction, past the oil pressure sender location (otherwise the red light would came on). Many newer engines have oil flow reduced (for economy) and deploy lighter weight oils.
But I am by no means a specialist in that engine internals, just base my comment on anecdotal evidence. Ours is a 2011 2.0L, their older generation Beta II engine that has a good record of reliability.
This failure is hard to diagnose without dissembling the engine and would be time and money wasted (unless you go on war path and keep receipts, lawyer up and make them pay.

As a side note, Kia reverted to 2.0 Nu MPi on their 2020 engine. This engine version, with MPi, was introduced in 2017 on Hyundai Elantra (after it had a GDi fuel delivery previously).
2020 Kia Rio and 2020 Hyundai Accent and Venue 1.6L engine fuel delivery was also switched from GDi to MPi too.
That tells a story IMO about their experiment with GDi.
The part I don't get Sonic is Kia remains heavily invested in GDI engines. The Telluride, Sorento, Sedona, Stinger, Sportage, Optima & K900 all embrace it. Similar with all Genesis vehicles & many Hyundai cars. Not to mention other automakers.

My thought was Kia has gone to more fuel efficient MPI & IVT combos on their smaller vehicles that have the best chance of boosting their CAFE numbers. Not necessarily shunning GDI.

GDI engines are heavily used by Kia on vehicles that require more performance & hp (and of course higher window sticker prices).
 

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So you think that they switched to MPi because it has better gas mileage? Even if previously they switched from MPi to GDi in the name of the same fuel economy? It makes no sense. They could had turbos before DI and didn't go that route then.

I think (just my guess) that they (Hyundai/Kia) quickly plugged the "hole" of an liability and controversy. Where the most of problems appeared. They can't swap off every DI at once, redesign everything over night. They will be open/liable for even more lawsuits.

The new Hyundai Smartstream engines come in both GDi and MPi variants or they come in dual fuel injection technology (G3.5T, where they advertise only the GDi). Something that Ford and Toyota had to do quickly too, to plug their liabilities:

We will see...

Personally, as an engineer, I know that we can make wrong assumptions when we design something new. And I know that management often gets in the way of doing the "correct" technical thing. Media also has a bad influence, by adding politics into the mix. I have the feeling that GDi is one of those issues.

I would never buy a turbo engine. They are just marginal more efficient than the aspirated equivalent (higher) volumes, but politicians forced their adoption with artificial taxes and barriers.
Why is the engine size taxed and not the actual fuel usage, if "green" was the final scope? A Turbo 2.0L can use as much gas as a 3.0L aspirated... it's just more fuel crammed in that cylinder.
 

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So you think that they switched to MPi because it has better gas mileage? Even if previously they switched from MPi to GDi in the name of the same fuel economy? It makes no sense. They could had turbos before DI and didn't go that route then.

I think (just my guess) that they (Hyundai/Kia) quickly plugged the "hole" of an liability and controversy. Where the most of problems appeared. They can't swap off every DI at once, redesign everything over night. They will be open/liable for even more lawsuits.

The new Hyundai Smartstream engines come in both GDi and MPi variants or they come in dual fuel injection technology (G3.5T, where they advertise only the GDi). Something that Ford and Toyota had to do quickly too, to plug their liabilities:

We will see...

Personally, as an engineer, I know that we can make wrong assumptions when we design something new. And I know that management often gets in the way of doing the "correct" technical thing. Media also has a bad influence, by adding politics into the mix. I have the feeling that GDi is one of those issues.

I would never buy a turbo engine. They are just marginal more efficient than the aspirated equivalent (higher) volumes, but politicians forced their adoption with artificial taxes and barriers.
Why is the engine size taxed and not the actual fuel usage, if "green" was the final scope? A Turbo 2.0L can use as much gas as a 3.0L aspirated... it's just more fuel crammed in that cylinder.
I like turbo engines. Our last several cars have had them. But it’s not because of fuel economy. To each their own.
 

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I like my V6 and V8 engines and I think that using an I4 "pushed" to do their jobs is a poor mechanical choice. My cousin in EU is pround of his new, expensive, BMW with 2.0L Turbo that makes 200HP. Meanwhile my 3.0L Mercury Sable is doing that since 2001 and it's still in use (by my teenage kid now).
My RAV4 3.5L V6 makes 269HP effortless.

But whatever floats anyone's boat...
 

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I liked them too when I had them and would still prefer them but they’re not widely available in new cars any more. They weren’t all bulletproof either but my 3.8 Olds got to 300K kms. Turbo inline fours have replaced them and they work fine for me. It is what it is and you adapt.
 
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