Last edited by WEREWOLF; 12-28-2011 at 08:25 PM.
Good argument. Well, if you consider saying a pair of these more expensive running shoes can perform better at 30 MPH than a pair of those less expensive running shoes. In other words, no one can run 30 MPH so there is no advantage. Understand the point?
In other words, nothing you ever do with your car will ever require you to need synthetic oil. You will never subject it to any conditions in which the "properties" of synthetic are ever needed. It's like buying a Rolex when all you need is a Timex. We'll both know what time it is, even if one spent 10,000 dollars on a watch and the other spent 10 dollars.
Look, use whatever oil you want. It doesn't matter. But don't be delusional in believing you're somehow better off because you bought synthetic because you aren't. In a passenger vehicle, it will never matter. Never. It simply won't, and years of testing has proven this.
Trust me...10 years from now, if your engine and my engine both had 100,000 miles on them, and were to be examined for wear and tear, there would be zero difference. None. Zilch. Tests have proven this fact.
I love the power of marketing. That's why Apple can sell the i-pad, which does nothing that any existing electronic item can't already do, for 500 bucks when you can get an inexpensive laptop that can do far more for the same price. I'd quote PT Barnum here, but it's not really necessary.
The above is a better articulation of your argument than- "To say "it's better in every category than standard" is complete and utter nonsense. It just is"- but it is still flawed.
First off, most engine wear occurs at start-up. EVERY car is subjected to start-up. It's logical to assume better lubricant equals less friction i.e. less wear and tear.
Is the difference between synthetic and conventional lubricants negligible with no real world application? The link I previously posted, indicates otherwise.
Are the benefits worth the added cost? I don't know. I'm actually on the fence. I'm certainly not "delusional" about anything, let alone synthetic oil. I just want to do right by my expensive new car which exhibits a distressing amount of lifter noise at cold start-up.
Last edited by WEREWOLF; 12-29-2011 at 07:53 AM.
One thing I do notice about the synthetic oils is they seem to offer a wider viscosity range than the standard oils. It wasn't easy finding a 5W20 oil out there that wasn't synthetic or a blend. I am sure they are out there.... but that is really the reason I chose my Motorcraft blend. All the standard oils I saw were 5W30 or 10W30.
I agree with both Werewolf and Straitjacket Jimmy. My cars didn't get old and worn because of the cheap oil. I had such a good run with the cheapo stuff I never got around to seeing if I used synthetic would it make a car go forever?. And I do want the "best" that is reasonably affordable.
I DO believe synthetic tranny fluid is an even better idea than engine oil.
I always figured the automotive industry would have designed in electric oil pumps to precharge an engine prior to firing it up each day, but apparently it is still not worth it. All those non-metallic parts still have a finite lifespan, no matter how good the lubricant is. So they figure to just design them to a reasonable lifespan and not waste a lot of money on "over the top" items. If I had a Lamborghini, I would run synthetic, and I would install a prelube pump(if possible), and I would use slick50 and duralube and amsoil pixie dust, and all that.
My goal right now is to get 200K troublefree miles out of my Soul. Should be a reasonable goal....
Synthetic oil is much much thinner than normal oil, and those first few seconds on start up, the synthetic oil gets to the moving parts quicker... and when the normal oil is really cold and thick, synth gets there quicker still. The first few seconds of extra protection , and less wear on each and every start up is worth that extra money in my book.
And as for comparing wear on two identical engines with differing oils over a given mileage..... i work with a shedload of highly qualified marine engineers and each and every one states that the synth engine would last longer and wear less.
Walking Cane grey
Ok. I just had my first oil change done at 5000 miles and I went with 5W20 Mobil 1 full synthetic. I had the service done at the dealership. Supposedly the first oil change is free however they didn't have 5W20 in stock so I ended up paying the difference for the upgraded oil. I also made sure they installed a KIA OEM oil filter.
Everyone should use whatever they want, but you should at least be aware of some emperical evidence. Consumer Reports always used to recommend oil changes every 3k, but they finally ran a controlled test on New York taxi cabs - it's hard to imagine a use that would stress an engine out more. After running these taxis for thousands of miles using conventional and synthetic oils, they examined the engines under a microscope and concluded that there was no difference whatsoever in wear between engines using natural oil and synthetic oils. They now recommend that you follow the manufacturer's instructions and not change the oil more often except possibly in extreme cases such as heavy towing while off-roading - something that I doubt you would be doing with a Soul. Just consider the following:
(1) Your Soul has a 100,000k drive train warranty that Kia pays to honor. Since you are the one paying for scheduled maintenance do you honestly think that they wouldn't recommend synthetics if it lowered their warranty costs?
(2) Some people here keep pointing out that "real" oil has not changed in millions of years and that synthetics are fine tuned to be better. Well, real oil hasn't changed but engines definitely have. When I was a kid (I'm that old) cars needed oil changes every 3k because the metals used, tolerances, etc. were hardly what they are now. Modern engines and associate electronics are light years ahead of what they were, which accounts for the outdated advice that our parents tend to give us on the need for constant oil changes.
(3) Many people talk about the Soul being their "baby" and them wanting to protect their investment. Again, that's their right but it is not an economically sound argument. Look, I like my Soul, but it is an inexpensive econobox that will never be a collectible. Assuming for the sake of arguing that using synthetics extended the engine's life span by 2k after 10 years, but you spent hundreds of dollars to gain those few miles you have made a choice that has no economic rationale, it's somewhat like spending an extra 20k for a hybrid that will save you 10k in fuel over its lifespan. Again, your choice but figure out your costs and you will quickly see that it is not a very smart choice economically.
I have some extra time on my hands so I decided to weigh in on this topic one more time.Werewolf and tempest are right on. Some of the rest of you should consult an on line dictionary and look up and remember the meaning of two words, VISCOSITY and FRICTION. Those of us who live in a climate where -30F is not uncommon know that a maintained vehicle kept outside will almost always start easily with synthetic oil completely eliminating the need for an engine block heater, the same can't be said for conventional oil. Now if conv. oil is so stiff your engine will barely turn over logic should tell you that it's not lubricating nearly as fast as synthetic. The molecules in syn. are much smaller, therefore it FLOWS sooner.
"Real" oil hasn't changed in millions of years? Really? Crude might not have but the additives change constantly. Read the API specs on an oil container sometime.
Don't put too much stock in "consumer reports" magazine, very entertaining but a joke overall. I owned several Chev S-10 pickups in their early years, CR's annual auto issue would always rate them poorly while rating the GMC S-15 much better, The EXACT same truck, built on the same assembly line just badge engineered. Their ratings come from subscribers / owners and they build maybe 10 - 20 times as many Chevys vs GMCs. CR also used to do comparison tests between 3 or 4 cars and at the end recommend a Toyota which wasn't even part of the comparison, That was back when Toyota still had a perception of quality. CR magazine should be considered for entertainment only.
I buy Mobil-1 at WalMart, the price difference vs conv. is not enough to affect my life style nor is the difference of a cheap questionable filter vs OEM or others rated at the correct pressure. Can't understand people using a Fram or something after all the top end noise complaints reported on this forum.
If you live in a moderate climate you may not notice any advantage with syn. but please don't be so delusional as to claim there is no advantage. End of my rant.