RPM staying high between shifts, for too long
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Thread: RPM staying high between shifts, for too long

  1. #1
    Newbie LeadFoot2U's Avatar
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    RPM staying high between shifts, for too long

    I've got 2800 miles on a Soul+, 2.0 liter engine, 5 speed standard transmission. When shifting, I notice it takes over 2 seconds for the revs to slow down to a "neutral" RPM. What's up wit' dat?!? I've driven standard shift vehicles all my life and have never noticed the RPM's staying high for so long after releasing the accelerator pedal.

    There's nothing wrong with the linkage, the cable allows the throttle to snap right back to the "neutral" position but the RPM's stay high for well beyond a reasonable amount of time. When I bought the Soul I was surprised to have the salesman state the standard shift version gets the same gas mileage as the automatic. I’m beginning to see why. Anyone have a comment or correction?

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  3. #2
    Elder Soul kfergiez's Avatar
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    That's actually not true about the gas mileage.... Even the EPA estimates say the manual gets better mileage.

    The reason your RPMs "hang" for a few seconds is because of the CVVT system. When you step on the pedal, the oil pressure raises, advancing the cam timing, when you release it, it takes a second for that oil pressure to fall and the advance to drop back to ten degrees or so.

    You are not actually losing fuel when this happens because the throttle sensor is one of the components that dictate how much fuel is dumped into the cylinders. When you let off the gas pedal, the fuel flow rate decreases and actually stops when you are coasting down a hill. The RPMs hang because of the timing, not because of too much fuel. This is totally normal with the the manual transmissions. This is really a good thing to have happen for the simple fact that the RPMs will better match when shifting into the next gear rather that dropping suddenly when the clutch is pushed in, and then raising again for the next gear.
    Last edited by kfergiez; 02-03-2010 at 06:04 AM.

  4. #3
    Intermediate Soul SoberOne's Avatar
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    it is normal with Soul from what I can tell... And I don't like it.
    I've noticed the same thing in comparison to all my other vehicles (I only drive manual transmission).

    I really don't think timing has anything to do with the rpm hang unless it is an ecu thing. I say this because timing has more to do with when the spark goes off inside the cylinder comparison to piston position and not rpm or throttle position. Yes the cvvt may help control timing but it doesn't control rpm.

    I belive it may have more to do with an exceptionally heavy drive train. Cheep (inexpensive) is not light weight and soul is inexpensive. The weight of the drive axel, clutch, pressure place and all the other rotating parts have a lot of mass to slow down. One of the easiest ways to get good throttle response on any car is to get a light weigh pressure plate and clutch assembly.
    2010 Soul Onyx Burner
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  5. #4
    Intermediate Soul adambomb946's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kfergiez View Post
    That's actually not true about the gas mileage.... Even the EPA estimates say the manual gets better mileage.

    The reason your RPMs "hang" for a few seconds is because of the CVVT system. When you step on the pedal, the oil pressure raises, advancing the cam timing, when you release it, it takes a second for that oil pressure to fall and the advance to drop back to ten degrees or so.

    You are not actually losing fuel when this happens because the throttle sensor is one of the components that dictate how much fuel is dumped into the cylinders. When you let off the gas pedal, the fuel flow rate decreases and actually stops when you are coasting down a hill. The RPMs hang because of the timing, not because of too much fuel. This is totally normal with the the manual transmissions. This is really a good thing to have happen for the simple fact that the RPMs will better match when shifting into the next gear rather that dropping suddenly when the clutch is pushed in, and then raising again for the next gear.
    Spot on. Couldnt have said it better myself

  6. #5
    Intermediate Soul Dunesoul's Avatar
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    I have to say I too have noticed the "rev up" between gears. It seems to be most pronounced between first and second. I don't see it as an issue as I don't think it takes me more than a second to shift gears. It's not like it revs out of control when you press in the clutch. Shift, back into a gear and accelerating again anyway. Doesn't seem to interfere with anything.... no big deal right?
    Dunesoul! 5spd

  7. #6
    Newbie LeadFoot2U's Avatar
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    Thanks for the response guys. The longer than expected time to return the RPM to neutral (idle) may have it's roots in both the electronic ignition and the weight of the clutch parts. Manually hand fluttering the throttle when parked creates the same effect, so I don't think the drive shaft/rear end has much to do with the situation. The flywheel/clutch assembly may indeed have extra weight producing the higher revs. I've just never seen this kind of hang time when you release the throttle.

    I do however lean towards the ignition causing the event. In the old days, weights used to advance the timing were spun with the rotation of the distributor. Sometimes they would stick causing an erratic RPM response. I'm sure the ignition is all electronic now but that doesn’t make a slow return to idle acceptable. The point of having the RPM's drop between shifts is to allow for smoother shifts (depress clutch and release accelerator at the same time, shift, slowly release clutch and add throttle for a smooth shift). When the RPM's stay high the shift isn't smooth. I've even noticed (for a split second) the tach increases in RPM's when shifting between 3rd/4th and 4th/5th when the accelerator is released to make the shift.

  8. #7
    Intermediate Soul SoberOne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeadFoot2U View Post
    Manually hand fluttering the throttle when parked creates the same effect, so I don't think the drive shaft/rear end has much to do with the situation. The flywheel/clutch assembly may indeed have extra weight producing the higher revs. I've just never seen this kind of hang time when you release the throttle.
    I ment the drive shaft of the engine and keep in mind if the clutch is engaged then the gearbox is spinning even if it is in neutral.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeadFoot2U View Post
    The point of having the RPM's drop between shifts is to allow for smoother shifts (depress clutch and release accelerator at the same time, shift, slowly release clutch and add throttle for a smooth shift). When the RPM's stay high the shift isn't smooth. I've even noticed (for a split second) the tach increases in RPM's when shifting between 3rd/4th and 4th/5th when the accelerator is released to make the shift.
    I agree and I had a hard time getting use to the the rpm lag and often slipped the clutch when shifting. I much prefer the rpm to drop to idle in a blink of an eye when I let go of the gas. When at speed and having to slow quickly I like to down shift and use the engine/rpm/clutch to help with the braking but this is much more difficult when the rpm hang.
    Last edited by SoberOne; 02-03-2010 at 04:04 PM.
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  9. #8
    Elder Soul
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    first time i've experienced this with any manual, and don't like it! am also still trying to figure out what's up with a very slight acceleration that happens in higher gears...
    Alien + (5 speed)
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  10. #9
    KDR
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    It does the same thing on the automatic, FWIW, which can result in a pretty dramatic jerk forward when going from 1st to 2nd. Personally, I see this as a safety issue.

  11. #10
    Intermediate Soul MightierToaster's Avatar
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    Now that you mention it, it does. Burning gas never was so unsatisfying.
    2010 Denim Soul Special Edition 5 Speed Manual Owner
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